LUDICROUS POWER in SF/F!

[seawasp]

While I love to imagine being the hero, at this time of year I think about being THANKFUL that I'm not. And one thing to give thanks for is that we are NOT in any of the universes that I'll be discussing here, or having to deal with the things I talk about!

This post will contain spoilers about books, TV shows, etc., from the early days of SF through very recent time, so if you fear spoilers, .....

.... this is not the post for you!


In the recent season finale of Doctor Who, we see what may well be the single most powerful weapon EVER in the history of all speculative fiction: Davros' "Reality Bomb":

"... every atom in existence is bound by an electrical field. The Reality Bomb cancels it out -- structure falls apart. ... People, planets, and stars will become dust, and the dust will become atoms, and the atoms will become... nothing. And the wavelength will continue, breaking through the rift at the heart of the Medusa Cascade into every dimension, every parallel, every single corner of creation. THIS is my ultimate triumph, Doctor! The destruction of REALITY ITSELF!

Thinking on this prompted me to muse upon all the other Ludicrously Overpowered devices and characters in SF/F, including -- but not limited to:

• The Ultimate Machine from John W. Campbell's Arcot, Wade, and Morey series (specifically Invaders from the Infinite). Campbell did indeed know how to scale his super-technobabble science up as well as anyone, and this final product of his heroes' genius gives them the power to control all the energy of the universe with a thought. Arcot's final demonstration, showing just how hideous a power that is, was one of the most effective pieces of writing Campbell ever did (even though as stories these are pure power fantasy with minimal characters even by the standards of the Pulp Age).


• 15-c Intrinsic Planets from the latter part of the Lensman series by E.E. "Doc" Smith. The early parts of the saga don't QUITE reach that level, but in the latter books there's actually quite a number of superweapons to choose from; the "nutcracker" that destroys the Eich homeworld, the Negasphere that is used to destroy Jarnevon, and the Sunbeam that channels all the output of the Earth's sun into a single unstoppable beam of force.


• Buster Machine 3 from the classic Gainax production Gunbuster. Until relatively recently, the Gunbuster and attendant machines were the most powerful mecha ever seen in anime; Buster Machine 3 destroyed the core of our galaxy.


• The Skylark of Valeron. Second entry from the pen of the inimitable Doc Smith, seen in both its eponymous novel and allowed to really cut loose in Skylark DuQuesne,(Vintage Pyramid X-1539) the Skylark of Valeron is used at one point to destroy two galaxies by the expedient of overlaying one star atop another instantaneously -- causing the entire pair of galaxies to become one huge supernova. At the same time it does this, it's also rescuing every single planet inhabited by humanoid lifeforms and placing those planets in safe, stable orbits around appropriate suns. Maybe not as powerful as some of the other entries, although it's damn impressive, but what it may lack in Completely Ludicrous Power the Skylark of Valeron makes up for in control.


• The Z-warriors from Dragonball Z. No discussion of Ludicrous Power could be complete without mention of what may be the most powerful individual warriors EVER in the history of fiction. For those unfamiliar with DBZ, you can get a quick understanding by watching the double bill of the Cooler and Metal Cooler movies (movies 5 and 6, which can be gotten in a 3-pack with the weaker movie 4
  ), or by viewing The Three Super Saiyajin (AKA "Super Android 13" in the USA) if you want something with even less plot and more explosions. The movies aren't strictly canon but the characters and powers are accurate. For those not inclined to view any at all, suffice it to say that these are people who have been known to destroy PLANETS as collateral damage during a personal bout of fisticuffs. Their attacks can destroy worlds and even rip holes through the fabric of spacetime itself.


• Bleeding on the Pattern. From Roger Zelazny's amazing Chronicles of Amber (of which the first five are the strongest and form a complete arc), the Amberites are people who have the ability to "walk through Shadow", where "Shadow" is what they call all realities other than the one THEY come from. Some of them believe Shadows aren't even completely real. However it may be, an Amberite's blood on the Pattern of Amber causes tremendous destruction throughout all realities; bleed enough to destroy the Pattern, you destroy ALL realities.


• The Bijuu from the long-running series Naruto/Naruto Shippuden. (no link because I don't know well enough to choose the right parts of this epic series). The Bijuu, or tailed demons, are monstrously powerful; apparently a single "tail" is enough to destroy a continent. Naruto, the title character, has the Kyuubi "Nine-Tails Demon Fox" sealed within him.


• Gurren Lagann. Remember how I said the Gunbuster USED to be the most powerful mecha? Well, this show ends with the hero controlling a mecha that is about 10 MILLION lightyears high, using galaxies like shiruken. Ouchie.

So, that's my little list. There's lots more. Anyone else have a favorite Ludicrous Power example from F/SF?

Comments

[midnightlurker.livejournal.com]

As the primary author of the Lensman Arms Race page on TV Tropes, I approve this message. :)

My favorite these days, apart from many of the above, is the Guyver -- in about two years of personal time, Sho Fukamachi has gone from a fairly simple if powerful battlesuit to commanding the Guyver Gigantic Exceed, a three-hundred-foot-tall monstrosity with (at minimum) the power to create and control massive black holes. Frankly, I'd pick Sho to win a fight over any Z-fighter these days.

(Minor correction: the Tailed Beasts in general are Bijuu. Kyuubi is the Nine-Tails specifically.)

[dsrtao]

In Simon Green's _Nightside_ universe, there is the Speaking Gun which is an artifact/entity that knows the words spoken by God that created the universe. It wants to say those words backwards, uncreating the universe... and has demonstrated that it can do so in small increments.

Iain Banks' Culture Minds, when they build warships, occasionally use gridfire -- inducing the hyperspace universe above us and the subspace universe below us to short-circuit through a target solar-system or two...

Stephen Baxter's Ring is a multi-lightyear-wide artificial construct which, as a side-effect, is the Great Attractor. It is used to escape from this universe before the dark-matter ecosystems destroy all baryonic life.

[seawasp]

Create and control MASSIVE black holes? As in, he's sucking solar systems down in them? I didn't realize the Guyver played on that level; I thought it was still down on the (at best) Saint Seiya level.

Because you'd need something at LEAST powerful enough to wipe out solar systems to take on a top-ranked Z fighter. The Dimension Tide Cannon (absolute coolest weapon ever shown in a movie, IMCGO) fired miniature black holes but wouldn't have been able to stop a Z-warrior. Nor would the Tar-Aiym Krang.

[seawasp]

Hmm. If the Speaking Gun WANTS to say the words backwards, and it's demonstrated it can do so, why is the universe still in existence? What keeps it from finishing its reversed sentence?

The Ring sounds somewhat similar to the Arena. Well, there's no new ideas anywhere, really.

[dsrtao]

The Speaking Gun needs to be wielded. So far, it hasn't managed to convince anyone to willfully undo the universe. On the other hand, it's well-known for undoing angels, both Fallen and upright. It spent a long time in the warehouse of The Collector, who notably does not want to destroy the universe, just collect everything interesting in it, and is now in the hands of Razor Eddie, the Punk God. Razor Eddie is basically a vigilante-hero, and... it's complicated.

The Ring can only be tuned to one universe at a time, and it takes centuries to change that.

[midnightlurker.livejournal.com]

Well, maybe not THAT massive. Yet. :P The characters do sometimes play with black holes that are theoretically massive enough to eat the Earth, but they've never managed to let one get permanently out of control yet.

They are clearly beyond Saint Seiya level at this point. (I think. Never seen any of the late-series stuff. Some of the weaker Zoalords might well fall before the Bronze Boys' shonen might.)

I wouldn't need something that powerful either, I don't think, to take down Goku. Archanfel, the Big Bad, can manipulate other people's energy blasts -- Goku might find his Genki-dama avoiding its target like the plague and insisting on coming after him. (Which could, I suppose, lead to a game of Teleportation Chicken. :) )

[kengr]

Jack Williamson. AKKA. What looks like pocket trash can be assembled into a weapon that can destroy worlds (maybe more, it's been 30-40 years since I read the story) with a thought.

You already covered the Campbell and Doc Smith ones.

Speaking of Amber, I've got an online acquaintance who is a huge Amber fan. I was reorganizing my collection of posters and found one I bought at least 20 years ago. A top map of Mount Kolvir. With the help of a mutual friend who sees the Amber fan a lot, it's going to said fan for Christmas. Complete with a mailing label that has their character name and purports to be from the Mapping Dept, Amber Geological Survey. :-)

[cateagle.livejournal.com]

How about Clifford Simak's Cosmic Engineers where they accumulate sufficient raw energy between universes that a flashlight beam is amplified enough to completely distroy another universe that was about to collide with ours?

Ho'od Win? Part I

[seawasp]

Judging "who'd win" contests is always difficult when you're talking universes with markedly different powers. Assuming you allow both to keep the powers they normally have, you still have to make some "diamond cut diamond" decisions if someone on each side has a power that's described in absolute terms ("unbreakable", "irresistable", etc.); for instance, Doc Smith's primary beams are described as beams of energy which no material substance can withstand; yet could even a primary beam cut through Captain America's shield or Thor's Hammer?

That said, I haven't seen later pieces of The Guyver so I can't directly judge. With respect to the Saints... well, by the end of the main series and main manga, they can equal or surpass the Gold Saints. They can move at lightspeed (without blowing the planet up), or if you can't quite swallow that (it's stated multiple times in the manga/anime, but there are other things that seem inconsistent -- typical of a fantasy writer who doesn't understand SF-scale issues) they're still moving at IMMENSE speeds -- Mach 100+. They can perceive and react at that level (though they start out at a lower level, they're still inherently fast enough that, taken unawares by a human being with a machine gun, they can catch EVERY SINGLE BULLET from the gun during sustained fire. These boys can take physical hits that leave craters in the landscape and get up and take some more. Depending on which of the Bronze Boys you have, you may be facing sheer physical force at ludicrous speed (Seiya's "Ryo Sei Ken", which is really just him punching you at a few thousand times a SECOND), elemental/magical fire, water, or ice attacks (Phoenix Ikki, Dragon Shiryu, and Cygnus Hyoga, respectively) which are certainly landscape-wreckers (and physics violators such as the Aurora Execution, which seals you in an ETERNALLY ABSOLUTE ZERO casing of ice which can't be broken or cut by just about anything), mental attacks (Phoenix Genma Ken), and dimensional manipulation (Nebula Chains) as well as simple all-out energy blasts (Nebula Stream/Storm, Sui Sei Ken, etc.). The amount of power they can draw on is pretty high, too -- TECHNICALLY they can draw on the entire power of their constellation.

And, of course, we have their Sixth, Seventh, and Eighth senses which allow them to do everything from recognize and adapt to your attacks to transcending death itself.

Finally, naturally, there's the fact that no matter WHAT you throw at him, Saint Seiya himself will be still coming at you, dragging himself by the strength of his remaining good lip, muttering "My mission... Athena...".

On the Z-Warrior's side, the problem is that Goku would have no trouble just mixing it up with these people hand-to-hand OR with energy. If you manipulate his energy blasts, he'll just laugh and come in one on one. Hitting you with punches that would make the Hulk or Superman back up and start looking for shields. At speeds that would make the Saints say "Huh? What? I didn't see what just happened!".


(continued because LJ has this stupid length limit)

Ho'od Win? Part II

[seawasp]

continued..


Ki power also works very strangely. It's sort of like Primal Energy (from The Primal Order) in that it engages EVERYTHING. A ki blast can be used to counter technological, magical, psionic, or other ki bolts. The direction and force of Ki can be manipulated by the user (the most classic such attack is Yamucha's "Sou Ki Dan!" which creates a fist-sized or larger sphere of ki which he can then direct as accurately and quickly as though he were doing a video game and controlling it with a joystick), so one of the questions would be whether Archanfel's Energy Control would overcome Goku's INHERENT control over the energy. (a battle for control of a full power Genki Dama would be... bad. For just about everyone concerned). If he could just grab control of the Genki Dama away and send it after Goku,

1) It would start to dissipate, as it's no longer controlled and directed by one of pure heart,
2) Goku would have a LOT of tactical options, up to just teleporting right behind Archanfel so the Genki Dama homed on BOTH of them.
3) There's a good chance Goku would learn the energy control technique or power. It's What He Does.

The "Ki acts funny" needs to be repeated, because it has some crucial implications for anyone doing the comparison. The most obvious is that in the Dragonball context, ENOUGH power in Ki trumps anything, if you've got any control over it. Throw a black hole at Dragon World, a Supaa-Saiyajin Stage Three Chou Kame-Hame-HA will blow it away, even though any OTHER type of energy or matter just gets sucked down and destroyed. (this is of course a classic example of the "Diamond Cut Diamond" question)

If I was putting someone from DBZ up against the Guyver people, I might not even choose Goku; Piccolo might be a better choice. He knows how to think. :)

[seawasp]

That makes sense. In a High Comic Book sort of way. Sounds fun.

[seawasp]

Ah, yes, AKKA is indeed a worthy contender. Requires relatively minimal training (just the skill) to use, and a minimal level of technology to construct the channel focus.

Major weakness is that it can only be used by one person, and you can neutralize it by having someone else alert to attempt to use it whenever someone else does.

That sounds like a neat present. My icon here was for one of my Amber characters, Janus Shadesheld.

[seawasp]

That certainly sounds like it ranks up there. Was this a PLANNED destruction, or purely an accident ("Boy, that dimensional gateway is dark. I'll shine a flashlight in and see what's there.... Ooops, destroyed a universe. But hey, it was about to collide with ours, so that works out!")?

[rugor.livejournal.com]

The Miracle Machine from Legion of Super Heroes

[rugor.livejournal.com]

If I remember right it was planned.

[cateagle.livejournal.com]

Planned, very definitely planned. Since, as I remember, they managed a way to evacuate the inhabitants of the other universe before they destroyed it.

An even bigger threat: Davrosian melodrama

[lexomatic.livejournal.com]

Davros gloated: "... every atom in existence is bound by an electrical field. The Reality Bomb cancels it out -- structure falls apart ... and the atoms will become ... nothing.

Um, no. Either Davros or the New Who writers got carried away with their technobabble, and forgot about the strong nuclear force (at nucleon and quark scales) and gravity. Reducing objects to plasma (which instantly recombines, unless the effect is persistent) sounds useful (presumably the new Daleks aren't nihilists, but intend to rebuild to their own specs), but they'll still be stuck with homogenized planetary masses and their deep gravity wells.

A slightly more selective weapon that merely kills every biological organism would be more elegant, but Daleks don't go for elegance; and besides, they need to get all those bothersome Movellans, Telosian Cybermen, and Krotons. They'll have enough trouble subduing the surviving energy-beings, and where are the Black and White Guardians when you need them?

The Reality Bomb is like the Marcus Genesis Device writ large (actually, John Vornholt wrote a TNG-era trilogy in which aliens amplified the effect to FTL-interstellar scale), or the Shambala not-alchemy death-attack from Fullmetal Alchemist.

In terms of melodramatic technobabble, it's almost as bad (zeta neutrinos?) as the Valeyard's "particle disseminator" from Trial of a Timelord, except the instrumentality doesn't look like a piece of Victoriana from a steamworks museum. Hooray for CGI, I suppose.

[lexomatic.livejournal.com]

In Gurren Lagann, I'm not sure the supergalactic combatants count. The Anti-Spiral Leader described the final battleground as a dimension of pure thought, so those galactic shurikens may've been metaphorical galaxies. Real ones wouldn't stick together in that way, no matter what timescale; a galaxy has only sagans of constituent particles, not the avogadrillions of familiar human-scale objects.

In the Tenchi in Love movie, Mihoshi and Kiyone break out a so-called "Dimension Cannon" to defeat the foe du jour, an artillery piece meant for destroying galaxies. It's unclear what the Galaxy Police need with such a weapon, but maybe it's one of Washuu's larks and she just gave them the keys. (Or perhaps Japan isn't immune to the confusion of "galaxy-constellation-solar system" that afflicts less-than-careful SF writers.)

Kill-'em-all Tomino's Space Runaway Ideon (1980) involved the destruction of the universe.

In the absurdist TV series Lexx, a self-replicating swarm of robotic arms consumes the entire Light Universe in a matter of months. (In a feat of jiu-jitsu, the protagonists escape to the Dark Universe, which happens to be ours.)

In the recent Walter Jon Williams novel Implied Spaces, there's this line by the protagonist at a war council: "Have we reached the point at which we're flinging hostile universes at each other?" They're bespoke universes filled with antimatter, and granted they mass only a few teratons, but it's still a cool way to make weapons.

Re: An even bigger threat: Davrosian melodrama

[seawasp]

Your puny objections are weak before the POWER of his MONOLOGUE.

This is Doctor Who. The science in that monologue was at least as good as most technobabble in the show, and more entertaining than most. I doubt there's a single Major Superscience Thingie in Doctor Who that isn't at least as flawed at its base.