Biological/forensic question...

[seawasp]

Is it easy, hard, or impossible to determine the actual age of a person from a biological examination? I'm not talking about the obvious wide divisions (infant, little child, older child, teenager, etc.) but within a year or two.

For example, if you're presented with a boy claiming to be 17, would it be possible to determine for sure that he is in fact 15? If yes, is this limited only to "growing years", and precision would drop drastically once you pass to adulthood? (for example, presented with a woman claiming to be 24 and she is actually 22)

If either or both are possible, what would the indicators be?

Comments

[redrose999.livejournal.com]

They determine age using the skeletal growth and stress for the most part. But I'm thinking about dead people rather than living.

[angoel.livejournal.com]

Count how many rings he has when you saw through ... no wait, that's trees.

[laptop-mechanic.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'd see what you can find with forensic anthropology.. they have several methods that they use for determining age. I dont know what they are in any detail, tho.

[dsrtao]

http://books.google.com/books?id=mS6-pGnPnZYC&pg=PA83&lpg=PA83&dq=chronological+biological+age&source=bl&ots=TXYmdLNjJS&sig=OshMQAPKz3brLzc0126CV17TujY&hl=en&ei=V_k4Svb5NpSwlAfk8YjhDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6

says no, not that accurately. Page 84, second column, midway through, says that there is not only a primary aging process, but at least three secondaries. Since they definitely aren't correlated within a year or three of chronological age, you aren't going to get that level of accuracy.

There are zillions of data points indicating that humans can reliably fool each other for long periods of time about stated age.

[llennhoff.livejournal.com]

Beat me to it.

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

What level of expertise are you assuming to judge with?

Are you assuming a biologically and neurologically "normal" person? Are you assuming no starvation or drug use or physical abuse or drastic clumsiness? What kind of activity levels are you looking at?

[seawasp]

I'm assuming (as Raiders of the Lost Ark put it) "..TOP men."

Biologically and neurologically normal, were raised in good classic middle-class American settings. Assume boy is very healthy and active, a martial artist who had earned a black belt. Had a week or two of privation in a very dangerous place (jungle) before making his way out.

[thette.livejournal.com]

With X-Days of the long bones, hands and feet, one could try to determine his age, but it will only give a likelihood of the age being the stated age.

[fivemack.livejournal.com]

I believe it's strikingly difficult; the problem comes up quite often in conjunction with the law about refugees in the UK, since the rules for people over-18 and under-18 are very different, and the cases never seem to be resolved well.

[rezendi.livejournal.com]

http://news.cnet.com/Hand-scan-could-limit-kids-Net-access/2100-1029_3-5571671.html

but also

http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200502/msg00085.html

[the-blue-fenix.livejournal.com]

If 'boy' means someone who may be under 18 and is definitely under 20-odd, I think the skull sutures are still knitting together around that time. I have the impression you could probably tell 17 from 22 but not 18 from 19. If you mean younger than that, probably could get the same kind of accuracy from seeing which teeth have and haven't sprouted all the way.

TBF, thinking this looks like a job for Tempe Brennan. Book version, not tv.

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

That level of martial arts is going to make it easier for a boy to pass as older, since he will have both muscular development and coordination beyond what his agemates would have. He'll also have more emotional practice, so will present as more emotionally mature than his agemates.

[shana.livejournal.com]

I think there is enough variation in development to make it really difficult. Even teeth don't all come in when they're 'supposed' to; I was getting the last of my '12 year' molars when I was 18.

If this is in reference to what I think it is, good dental records might give a hint, but it's unlikely that medical records would be detailed enough to do so.

[k-kinnison.livejournal.com]

Teens are easier then anyone above 21 IMHO

Mostly it is based on Maturity level and how they converse. I have seen some rather nice looking woman and once I start chatting them up I realize they are actually jail bait. But you cannot go by looks alone, a lot of growth is based on nutrition levels and genetics. I have seen Girls who were 6 feet tall but hadn't even learned to drive yet. Without talking to them you would swear they were collage age

[k-kinnison.livejournal.com]

If the person doing the examination knew the average "Growing age" for a area they could determine a teenagers age based on the growth plates on their bones.

[keithmm.livejournal.com]

Can't be done. The level of variability in human physiology means that you really couldn't be sure, especially at that level of precision, within a given phase of maturity.

Just to give a personal example of the variability, wisdom teeth normally erupt between the ages of 17 and 21. Mine didn't pop until my late 20s/early 30s, so late that I thought for quite some time I'd be one of the people who didn't have them at all.

[denelian.livejournal.com]

i aced forensic anthro. so, i can say this: you can get an approximate age range based on NORMS.
for pre-teens, you do teeth (all teeth that are present, both sets, because ALL your teeth are fully formed before birth), skull sutures, then growth plates and bone formation (especially pelvic area bones), then other facial movements.
teenage is harder, because there are cases where 13-year-olds skulls are pretty fully knit; teeth are weirded in teens (especially the wisdom tooth area, which *used* to be considered the best indicator of adulthood, but now it's known that some people's wisdom teeth don't come in til late 20s sometimes). but the order is still pretty much the same - teeth, skull sutures, facial develpment, then growth plates.

adults... with adults, anything less than late-middle age is going to be *HARD*. if there are wisdom teeth, you can be reasonably sure the person is over 20 - but until there starts to be a lot of wear on the joints, you will have lots of trouble nailing it down. generally, age 22-45 is pretty open (most people do still grow, at least a weeeee little bit, til 20 or 21). best indicators are things like tooth wear - and will be totally different for each different area, class, etc. a person who is 35 in Mexico City will look totally different from a 35 in NYC who will be totally different from a 35 in Iraq who is totally different from a person in South Africa (city, different than rural, etc, etc). and that age range, 22-45, isn't at all acurate, because 'middle age" depends upon diet, climate, socio-economic status, type of work, type of recreation, exersise, etc, etc,etc.

really, once a person is an adult but isn't yet "old" (for the area and class and all that that person lives in) age is almost impossible.
from skeleton - skin, if we are speaking of a live person (which we are, i think?) can be a really good resource for aging a person, so long as that person doesn't have access to things like plastic surgery, Botox, etc. most lotions don't actually change the apparent age of the skin once they are absorbed, they only work for the period of time they are actually floating on the skin - best places to look for age on the skin are hands and feet.

but, anyone working outside the norm for their area, all bets are off. serious martial artists, for example, change pretty much EVERYTHING used as an aging indicator - wear and tear on bones make the person seem "older", for one...

so... you can get an approximate age GROUP, but the older the person,the larger the age group. you can generally be specific within a few months with those under age 3; within about a year for those under 13; within a FEW years for those under 21; after that... yeah :)