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[personal profile] seawasp
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The existence of our civilization and the realization of its tremendous complexity, its reliance on so many people who have no personal connection or commitment to each other still doing what they have to do for all the others to get their work done. One of the reasons "Lord of the Flies" pissed me off so much was that it simply didn't ring true. If people were naturally that nasty, you'd never have gotten out of the caves, and certainly that whole "civilization" thing would never have caught on.

We hear about crimes, betrayals, and atrocities and are horrified by them PRECISELY BECAUSE THEY ARE THE EXCEPTION.

You don't see headlines, "Boy heeds parents, does homework with minimal argument", or "Man kisses wife, they resolve argument peacefully" because these are the norm. You don't see "Countries settle differences by quiet negotiation" because that's 99% of how it works.

We're living in an era of UNPRECEDENTED peace, with the vast majority of people not involved in war, with lifespans increasing and living conditions improving slowly (or not so slowly) in most places.

The crime rate is drastically down from what it was some years ago -- lower in the USA than it's been since the early 1960s.

People PERCEIVE things as being all so horrible because that's what gets news, that's what sells papers, gets views online, etc.

But the perception is 100% wrong.

Date: 2010-05-22 02:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] von-krag.livejournal.com
via instapundit.com comes this description. In a weird bit of
synchronicity I'm reading it now...

A CHEERY TAKE FROM MATT RIDLEY: The Rational Optimist: How Prosperity Evolves. “Life is getting better—and at an accelerating rate. Food availability, income, and life span are up; disease, child mortality, and violence are down — all across the globe. Though the world is far from perfect, necessities and luxuries alike are getting cheaper; population growth is slowing; Africa is following Asia out of poverty; the Internet, the mobile phone, and container shipping are enriching people’s lives as never before. The pessimists who dominate public discourse insist that we will soon reach a turning point and things will start to get worse. But they have been saying this for two hundred years. Prosperity comes from everybody working for everybody else. The habit of exchange and specialization—which started more than 100,000 years ago—has created a collective brain that sets human living standards on a rising trend. The mutual dependence, trust, and sharing that result are causes for hope, not despair.”

Date: 2010-05-22 02:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jakeinhartsel.livejournal.com
"We hear about crimes, betrayals, and atrocities and are horrified by them PRECISELY BECAUSE THEY ARE THE EXCEPTION."

No we hear about these because they happen!

"We're living in an era of UNPRECEDENTED peace, with the vast majority of people not involved in war, with lifespans increasing and living conditions improving slowly (or not so slowly) in most places."

The weakest example of human kindness that I can imagine. I have attended some of the funerals of the young folks that died in recent military action. Military action which has resulted from greed and religious intolerance. The US is regularly killing civilians, contrary to established International Law, in countries in which there is no declared war. Meanwhile religious terrorists are trying to kill Americans in our own country, again contrary tot Established International Law.

"But the perception is 100% wrong."

I live in an area where human kindness is commonplace, but the population here is tiny. The nearest town is about 12 miles away and the population of that town is about 36.

When I go to the cities where most of the population of the US lives, I see little more than hate, greed and intolerance.



Date: 2010-05-22 04:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-blue-fenix.livejournal.com
(proposes a toast to your good sense, sir)

Date: 2010-05-22 04:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-blue-fenix.livejournal.com
Are you sure you know what to look for in cities? Less courtesy in traffic, yes, but more tolerance for people who are different.

I live in/near a tinyish town myself. When a lesbian couple I know visited I wasn't ABSOLUTELY sure it was safe for them to visit the local grocery store as open gays. Same store whose staff knows me and my kids by name and is unfailingly warm to us. White, white-collar, conventionally married, they-assume-I'm-Christian me vs. strange women with matching tatoos...

Date: 2010-05-22 04:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dsgood.livejournal.com
What bothered me most about Lord of The Flies was the "Without civilization's support, they revert to tribalism" nonsense. Combined, of course, with tribalism=nastiness.

But my opinion might have been different if I hadn't left the novel unfinished. Out of boredom, rather than despair or disagreement.

Date: 2010-05-22 08:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gareth-wilson.livejournal.com
Lord of the Flies was actually inspired by The Coral Island, where a group of boys wind up in the same situation but work together effectively to survive. Golding thought this was "unrealistic".

Date: 2010-05-22 09:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jakeinhartsel.livejournal.com
In the Community that I live in there are perhaps a couple of hundred people withjin a radius of 25 miles. There are three homosexual couples two pairs of men and one pair of ladies and they are all very much accepted. There are no blacks or hispanics in this area so I am not sure how they would be accepted, but I have heard no negative comments towards either.

I do know that If a car is stopped on the road, most people will stop and ask if they need help. At times when I have been doing one project or another, people have just showed up and said thought they would see if I could use some help. Most people heat by wood up here and when people are short of wood or are ill usually a bunch of people will get together and cut wood for them, and then afterwards use the occasion as reason to get together and have a pot luck dinner.


Jake
Hartsel, Colorado

Date: 2010-05-22 10:10 pm (UTC)

Date: 2010-05-23 03:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sorek.livejournal.com
Lord of the Flies was about a bunch of kids. Relatively young kids as I recall, Wikipedia says all under 13. Kids barely old to babysit, let alone be unsupervised for weeks or months on end.

It's much easier to believe a bunch of kids becoming bullies and then progressing to become savages than it is for adults to do the same.

I was lucky, I was never bullied much in school, how about you?

Date: 2010-05-23 08:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caper-est.livejournal.com
Lord of the Flies isn't sold overwhelmingly for the use of an unwilling audience in school by accident. It bears exactly the explicit message that teachers and rulers would be expected, in the aggregate, to push - 'showing' persons placed under them that they are essentially depraved, and can in no wise trust their peers even in a hard pinch, unless the authorities are looking over their shoulder to teach them what's right and make sure that they do it.

What a surprise, that it's mostly forced upon readers by authoritative order!

I've read Coral Island too, and it was pretty bad. Golding was a much better writer. Unfortunately, he Used His Powers For Evil: Flies is an intricately-carved wand for the shrinking of souls, whereas Island is a big crude spar for their use in manly exercise.

Scepticism, and even carefully applied cynicism, are perfectly good things in my book; but misanthropy is wickedness and madness, and I don't see how anybody who knows their own life for a good can fight shy of the obvious generalization.

Date: 2010-05-23 05:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sorek.livejournal.com
good point, they'd be cruel dicks and maybe even wind up killing each other, but they wouldn't bother inventing religion(s).

Date: 2010-05-24 07:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] denelian.livejournal.com
i live in a huge city - Columbus, OH. and i have live in teeny little villages [most notably, i lived in Ellijay, GA]

guess where i'd rather break down? i have NEVER had a car problem here in CBus without many people offering to help; when there are stores that aren't ADA compliant, the people who work in the stores help me. i could go on for hours; when i lived in Ellijay, people KNEW me. the most help i got [generally] was one time my car broke down, and someone who passed by told my boss [i worked at the Waffle House near hwy 515...]

here, i've had random strangers help me *often*. and i help back. and no, not everyone is going to help - lets say 10% of the world is "helpful". in a town of 30, *3* people are helpful - in a city of a couple million, 200,000 are helpful.

Date: 2010-05-24 07:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] denelian.livejournal.com
the most shocking reminder that people can be cool...

when i first starting having the hip issues, i was VERY resistant to using any aids. and i was attending OSU.

after several months, i caved and started using the cane.

there was a group of guys who always hung around this one building i had class in, and they were... catcallers, i guess. i had never, before this specific day, managed to walk past these guys without at LEAST a couple of rude "offers" and yelled "bitch" or "tease" or "frigid", etc.
so i was expecting *worse*
nope, they saw me, their eyes got huge, and they fell all over each other trying to help me. one of them even walked me to the elevator, to appologize for the weeks prior - and i wasn't going to question motivation, and when i explained that NO one is going to be comfortable with that behavior, he laughed and said that's why they were all [all 7 of them!] taking a women's studies course the next quarter. [i was a TA in that class, and all of them passed. it was actually rather shocking]. up until that point, i'd pretty much assumed that they weren't even students, because all they ever seemed to do was sit on the steps of that building and harrass girls/women.

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