seawasp: (A Disbelieving Doctor)
seawasp ([personal profile] seawasp) wrote2010-09-05 09:46 am

MORE DoomyDoomDOoom with DOOooOOoom Sauce for HUGO!

Y'know, the Gloomy SF Is Better movement is now *FORTY YEARS OLD*. The original New Wavers are dead or reaching the end of their careers. Don't you think it's time to GIVE IT AN F'ING REST? I mean, really, picking WATERS OF MARS ,of ALL the Doctor Who you could have chosen?

Yes, I know. I'm USED to awards being given to the stuff that's worst, but it does get a bit WEARING after a while. Hell, it's not like the Grand Finale this year was all sweetness and light; it was pretty grim. But it didn't involve grade-A choice stupidity AS WELL as doomy doom dooOoooOooom.

(I can't judge most of the others, not having read 'em. But I know what Charles Stross writes, and I find it likely that there's a lot of doominess in it.)
ext_58972: Mad! (Default)

[identity profile] autopope.livejournal.com 2010-09-05 02:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Actually? "Palimpsest" is kind of optimistic about the long term picture once you work through it ...
dsrtao: dsr as a LEGO minifig (Default)

[personal profile] dsrtao 2010-09-05 07:30 pm (UTC)(link)
The ending is reasonably optimistic, and humanity survives for millions of years past now.

Still, I wonder what Charlie's completely optimistic SF would look like.

[identity profile] murstein.livejournal.com 2010-09-05 03:19 pm (UTC)(link)
The whole country is on a "We're doomed! Doomed, I say!" kick. It would be surprising if a little didn't spill over into fandom.

[identity profile] jordan179.livejournal.com 2010-09-05 04:17 pm (UTC)(link)
The usual point being to create an "If This Goes On..." scenario, take it deadly serious, and assume that everyone in the fictional universe is a complete idiot so that the world ends because nobody can find their left socks, or something like that :)

[identity profile] murstein.livejournal.com 2010-09-06 01:36 am (UTC)(link)
No, it's not just now spilling over. But a reinforcement is, rather like when you're almost-but-not-quite over the flu, and are visited by someone infected with a completely different strain.
ext_58972: Mad! (Sockpuppet)

[identity profile] autopope.livejournal.com 2010-09-06 01:25 pm (UTC)(link)
What country would this be?

(Hint: I'm not American.)

[identity profile] murstein.livejournal.com 2010-09-06 09:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Good point. I spend enough time arguing economics with Americans who have confused political ideology with economic history, that it's easy to forget when my words are likely to have a wider audience.

I'm referring to the US. On the other hand, I thought I detected the same, in a stiff-upper-lip fashion, from the latest British election, too. On the gripping hand, this year's Worldcon was held in Australia, which seems to have managed better in the recent global downturn than anyone else in the world.

Perhaps it's just a matter of fashion, like this little gem of despair?

[identity profile] jordan179.livejournal.com 2010-09-05 04:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Speaking of which, I recently read Grand Central Arena in the paperback and loved it. Your version of Marc DuQuesne (2.0), striving to be a hero against the fictional heritage of villainy imposed on him both by the Hyperion project and (inadvertently) by his original creator was a truly inspiring character, and I loved the rest of the crew too. Plus, you've come up with a truly awesome concept in the Arena itself. Keep on writing in that universe!

[identity profile] jordan179.livejournal.com 2010-09-05 09:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, I never read your online stories. I should now, because I really did like Grand Central Arena.

I also like the love triangle you wrote DuQuesne into. Unlike most such triangles, I really could like and respect all three of the parties involved, and see why they would like and respect both of the other two. And they were believable as people, too, despite that all three were moderately to strongly superhuman, in one way or another.

Much like "Doc" Smith's characters, really.

[identity profile] jordan179.livejournal.com 2010-09-05 04:20 pm (UTC)(link)
His "A Colder War" had the human world on Earth end due to the weaponization (or so the Great Powers thought, it was more just like the release) of the Great Old Ones, and he missed the obvious silver lining ...

... the survivors of the human race had learned to use the Gate systems of the Elder Things to travel to other star systems, so humanity was now an interstellar civilization. That had to go implied, else the ending might have actually been an optimistic one!

Freebie

[identity profile] mrmeval.livejournal.com 2010-09-05 06:44 pm (UTC)(link)
http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm

This is wrist slitting stuff. It lacks a pompous, arrogant, humorous comic relief. Someone like George after Watergate. Pity.

Re: Freebie

[identity profile] jordan179.livejournal.com 2010-09-05 09:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Well ...

... I dislike Charlie Stross personally, but I loved the concept of "A Colder War." It's solidly grounded in the Mythos all the way back to the 1940's, particularly August Derleth's Robert Bloch's "The Shadow from the Steeple" (1950), in which he reveals that Nyarlathotep deliberately gave humanity atomic energy before we were morally ready to use it; and August Derleth's "The Black Island" (1952), in which America atom-bombs R'lyeh, but merely annoys Cthulhu by doing so. Note also Lumley's Necroscope series, also in the Mythos, partly set in the Cold War, which during those parts features Britain's "E-Branch" pitting psychic secret agents against Soviet psychic secret agents.

It actually makes perfect sense that, at least in some timelines, the Great Powers would weaponize Mythos knowledge, and that in at least one, the result would be a final war which resulted in loosing the Great Old Ones. Triggering such a war would have been Nyarlathotep's logical objective in "The Shadow from the Steeple," and linking it directly to the release of the Great Old Ones just makes matters even better (and funnier, Nyarlathotep is The Deadpan Snarker of the Outer Gods) from the viewpoint of the Crawling Chaos.

The depressingness of "A Colder War" springs not from the scenario but from Stross missing the silver lining of the outcome. OTOH, Stross' protagonist has lost his wife and family, and was never very much an Ad Astra type, so it's understandable that this character wouldn't see the possibilities of the situation.
ext_58972: Mad! (trainwreck)

Re: Freebie

[identity profile] autopope.livejournal.com 2010-09-06 01:27 pm (UTC)(link)
I dislike Charlie Stross personally

Dude, it's mutual. Don't sweat it.

Re: Freebie

[identity profile] jordan179.livejournal.com 2010-09-11 05:32 am (UTC)(link)
Glad to see you focused on the important points, rather than the actual critique of the story concept.

[identity profile] gridlore.livejournal.com 2010-09-05 04:53 pm (UTC)(link)
The Dramatic Short Form list was dominated by downers. I think "Waters" won because it was well-written, and explored the idea that some events cannot be changed, even if the Doctor tries to change it, history will have it's way.

Next year, I want to see this video nominated for the Short Form Hugo. With almost no dialogue, The Faking Hoaxer produces one of the most chilling short films I've ever seen.

[identity profile] gridlore.livejournal.com 2010-09-05 06:12 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't see "We Came in Peace" as DoomyDoom. After all, it all allegedly happened forty years ago, and we're still here. Just a fun, very well-made take on the "aliens on the Moon" trope that dates back to before Jules Verne. YMMV.

[identity profile] gridlore.livejournal.com 2010-09-06 03:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Go watch "We Came in Peace." it's about six minutes long.
ext_2858: Meilin from Cardcaptor Sakura (Default)

[identity profile] meril.livejournal.com 2010-09-06 02:53 am (UTC)(link)
The Mieville isn't doomy, but it's also his least genre-specific work (or at least in the English-language sff genre; it, in a Borgesian way, has its ancestors in Central European crime fiction and literary fantasy.)

[identity profile] gary-jordan.livejournal.com 2010-09-06 04:00 am (UTC)(link)
I'm just guessing that you aren't the biggest fan ever of the Chronicles of Covenant the Unbeliever, for example. DoomyDoomDOoom with DOOooOOoom Sauce.

[identity profile] gary-jordan.livejournal.com 2010-09-08 10:31 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't think he's actually read the books. He's way too optimistic.

[identity profile] gary-jordan.livejournal.com 2010-09-08 10:32 pm (UTC)(link)
You read the second chronicles? Masochist!
kjn: (Default)

[personal profile] kjn 2010-09-06 05:09 am (UTC)(link)
- We have the spaceships, aliens, and doom; the robots, computers, and doom; the interstellar mysteries and doom; doom, robots, aliens and doom; doom…

- Have you got anything without any doom in it?

- Well, doom, computers, aliens and doom, it doesn't have too much doom in it.

[identity profile] nuranar.livejournal.com 2010-09-10 07:29 pm (UTC)(link)
Sneaking in very late here. I always feel like I'm the short kid on the outside of a bunch of older kids, hopping around and trying to see the full picture of what's so exciting. :) But at least I do learn things, namely that this New Wave is the reason I don't like much written past 1950!

[identity profile] nuranar.livejournal.com 2010-09-13 11:28 pm (UTC)(link)
I *did* get that impression from your discussion, but hey, you weren't writing a complete analysis. It's still true that I've enjoyed no more than 20% of what I've read from, say, the 50s and 60s magazines on the Gutenberg Project. Very definitely there was only one story I loved, that lead me to buy two books.