Tell me about Borderlands...?

[seawasp]

I've heard some good general buzz about the game, and I have heard that there's a sequel out or coming soon, but I've never played it or seen it played. Is it a game I'd enjoy?

Games I've played and enjoyed:
  A bunch of the JRPGs, with Chrono Trigger and Star Ocean and Persona at the head of the lists
  Fallout 3 and New Vegas
  Oblivion and Skyrim
  Dragon Age

Games I have enjoyed but found I can't play them for long before my aged reflexes betray me and I am filled with fail:
  Action-RPGs like Tomb Raider and inFamous

Games I don't really enjoy are FPSs.

  I've also been thinking about Mass Effect. Is it important to play ME1 before ME2 and ME3 or are they pretty much separate?

Comments

[anton-p-nym.livejournal.com]

You can play any of the ME games without playing the others; ME2 has an introductory "motion comic"/"choose your own adventure" segment for those who don't import a gamesave from ME1. (ME3 has a set of default choices if you don't import a gamesave from ME2... but most folks won't like the story the results from those defaults.)

That being said, I personally would recommend playing the games in sequence. You get more investment in "your" Shepard that way, and the story reveals will have more impact if you've managed to make it this far without them being spoiled.

Be advised that the mechanics of ME1 are a bit primitive; if you don't "level" a gun skill then that type of gun will be very difficult to use, and there's no "VATS" like mechanic like in the new Fallout titles. (Easily avoided for by taking one of the "power"-heavy classes like Adept or Engineer, though, as powers do have a pause-game-to-use feature.) ME2 and ME3 have better mechanics and actually make for good shooter games (if you want to play them as such) as well as solid RPGs.

-- Steve's still mildly addicted to ME3's multiplayer, which is superior to that of many dedicated shooter games he's tried.

PS: the added downloadable content for ME1 is easily skipped; none of it gets reflected in later games, save for a few non-interactive mentions. ME2 has four DLC missions that I'd strongly recommend getting; Overlord (which sets up a mission in ME3, plus it's amazingly creepy in an eldrich-horror sense), Stolen Memory (introduces a secondary character in ME3), Lair of the Shadow Broker (huge, huge set-up for ME3 and it may be the DLC mission I've enjoyed most from any game), and Arrival (bridges ME2 to ME3).

[melchar.livejournal.com]

I haven't tried 'Borderlands' [it's a little too much western/fps for me ^_^]. I have been told it's good, but I'm still playing 'Skyrim' and have a backlog of 'Persona' games still to play. [So what am I playing now? Ran thru KotOR last week and am doing KotOR2 now, since the lastest fan-patch has high marks.]

'Mass Effect' was very, very good. IMO you should play it before the others. It establishes plot and universe very well. It was a ton of fun. 'Mass Effect 2' is also very good, tho it takes the story in odd directions, but very much plays off the original.

I have not played 'ME 3' but have heard that it is 90% very good, but suffers from a very disappointing deus ex machina ending.

[argonel.livejournal.com]

Considering what you have noted as likes and dislikes I would be hesitant to suggest you pick up borderlands. The core game mechanic is that it is a FPS, but it does have great humor and some nice story elements. Less so than Fallout 3 and it does not have VATS mode to help with the combat. Basically the quickest summary is Diablo with guns or stretching back a little farther Rouge/Moria/Angband as a FPS.

To suggest a different modern game with a sequel coming out "soon" I would say take a look at Torchlight / Torchlight 2. You can still preorder torchlight 2 for $20 and get a free copy of torchlight. Semi action dungeon crawling with piles of semi random equipment to collect. Fun cartoony art style too. http://store.steampowered.com/app/200710/

[seawasp]

Alas, that appears to be Windows only, and I am either Mac or, preferably for games, PS3.

[argonel.livejournal.com]

Fortunately the keyword is appears. Torchlight currently has a Mac version available. Runic is also plannig on releasing a mac version of Torchlight 2 but I can't tell you a timeline on that. Looks like the demo version of Torchlight is available for both Mac and PC. http://store.steampowered.com/app/41500/?snr=1_7_suggest__13

[ninjarat.livejournal.com]

Torchlight is much fun. It's what Diablo 3 could have been. To wit: fun. :)

Also, Steam and Torchlight run just fine on Macintosh with Wineskin Winery.

[usdutchkitty.livejournal.com]

Me personally? I've gotten Fallout New Vegas and I really like it. It is from the same people who did Skyrim and it has a long of open world and story. You don't have to play the earlier Fallout to enjoy this one.


But to go old school, I HAVE to recommend Legend of Dragoon. It is from the PS1 era but it is still go enjoyable.

Now if only my PS3 store would put up Chrono Cross for me to buy.

[ninjarat.livejournal.com]

I /hated/ Legend of Dragoon. That is, I hated the twitch combat mechanic. That is, I hated the twitch combat mechanic until I used a cheat to get enough cash to buy a bunch of the rings that bypass the mechanic. The game wasn't so bad after that. :)

Persona and Grandia are still my top recommendations for PSX.

[thomasyan.livejournal.com]

My guess is you would not enjoy Borderlands. I approach it pretty much as a FPS.

I would recommend playing the Mass Effect games in order. Some gameplay is boring/tedious ("scanning" planets, argh!), but overall it is pretty good, and you can always fiddle with the easy-mode knob.

[remus-shepherd.livejournal.com]

Borderlands is an FPS. It's irreverant and funny, with randomized loot and a rudimentary RPG leveling system like Diablo, but it's still a FPS at heart. There are no branching conversations like in Fallout, so it's much more linear than any RPG. Variety in Borderlands comes from the weapons you find. The tagline for the game is 'One Bazillion Guns' -- they do live up to that promise.

Mass Effect is a FPS also, although it has branching plotlines like a RPG. I've only played ME1, and it was just okay. I've heard that ME2 is much better, with superior game mechanics and storyline, and that you could jump in there and ignore ME1 completely. But that's second-hand info.

I don't know much about console gaming, but my girlfriend's son swears by the Assassin's Creed series. That's a RPG you might enjoy. The gameplay looks interesting and varied to me, but I can't speak to the storyline. (Something about time travel from the future back to moments in one man's family history.)

[ninjarat.livejournal.com]

Mass Effect is a shooter, not a role-player.

[seawasp]

Interesting. ME, ME2, and ME3 have been repeatedly recommended to me and the latter 2 are listed as "RPGs" on various forums. You and Remus are the first to say they're FPS's and not RPGs.

[thomasyan.livejournal.com]

I was a little surprised that you said you wanted to try the ME games. I'd say they are about 2/3 FPS, and 1/3 RPG. I'm uncertain how to characterize just how much choice you have in the ME games, especially since all the endings in ME3 don't seem to really reflect all your prior decisions.

But the so-called RPG/MMORPGs that I've played kind of annoy me, in that, how is it role-playing if you cannot break character?

[remus-shepherd.livejournal.com]

ME at least does give you choices. The main effect of those choices may be what alien your character is sleeping with in the soft-porn cutscene, but at least the choices exist. That's more RPG-like than pure shooters like Quake, or even hybrids like Borderlands.

Oh, yeah, Sea Wasp -- if you're into human on (or under) alien soft-porn, ME is the way to go. :)

[ninjarat.livejournal.com]

Third person, not first person, but still shooters. They're all action games with RPG elements. They're not role-playing games.

[windchime68.livejournal.com]

For what it's worth, while I agree that the Mass Effect games are more action games/shooters than RPGS - I usually dislike (and suck at, due to poor reactions) action games/shooters and love RPGs, and I loved all three Mass Effect games (much to my surprise). They don't really feel like shooters, to me.

If you like story-driven games with good characters, where your choices affect what happens down the line (and not just at the games' endings), in a compelling setting - then I'd say give the ME games a try. And I'd recommend playing all three, in order. As anton said, you get more of a connection to your character (and other characters in the games as well) that way, as well as more control over your character's background and story. Also, while each game is more-or-less self-contained, they do form a overall story, so you'll only get the full picture by playing all three.

I started ME1 for the first time about 5 months ago, and while some aspects of it are a bit primitive now in comparison to the other two, I still found it very playable.

Can't comment on Borderlands as I've never played it.

[ross-teneyck.livejournal.com]

Just out of curiosity, what to you makes a game a role-playing game? Because I would have no hesitation in describing the ME series as RPGs.

[ninjarat.livejournal.com]

In a role-playing game, success is determined by the character's abilities.
In an action game, success is determined by the player's abilities.

[ross-teneyck.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I see what you're getting at, although I'd quibble that character advancement management and inventory management and combat tactics and so on are player abilities.

But if I understand you, the difference to you is that in an RPG it doesn't matter how good the player's physical abilities are -- reflexes, manual dexterity, etc. It only matters what decisions the player makes.

I still prefer to describe the ME series as a hybrid of shooters and RPGs, because they are no more pure action games than they are pure RPGs. However, I can see the validity of both "shooter with RPG elements" and "RPG with shooter elements."

[ninjarat.livejournal.com]

A player's mental abilities aren't necessarily challenged in most RPGs. A player has the option of copying another's builds and strategies thus eliminating the player's mental abilities from the progress equation. On the other hand, action games often require good perception and situational awareness as well as quick and steady reflexes. These things can't be copied from a guide. So it still boils down to the character's abilities vs. the player's abilities.

[remus-shepherd.livejournal.com]

Oh, I should mention -- if you want a good game for your Mac, get Bastion. It's a platformer with RPG elements, and it does some neat tricks with narrative that I think you as a writer would appreciate.

[ross-teneyck.livejournal.com]

I highly recommend the Mass Effect series. It currently stands at the top of my all-time list of favorite computer RPGs, ever.

I also strongly recommend playing them all, and in sequence. ME2 and ME3 have a mechanic where you can import a save file from the previous game, and all the choices you made get reflected in the storyline. By the time you get to the third game, you can be playing in a seriously different universe from someone who made different choices. They put a lot of work into this aspect of the series.

If you don't import a save game into ME2, it makes default choices for you. If you don't import a save game into ME3, you get a very limited ability to choose how you "played" the previous games -- but it's not nearly as complete as actually doing that.

Also, the series has a really good story -- galactic-scale space opera, with a backstory going back millions of years. It has, as E. E. Smith would say, "scope."

Now, all that being said, the ending of the third game -- the culmination of the entire trilogy arc -- is, let's say, just a little bit disappointing. They released a patch that makes it less sucky, but it's still a major let-down. However, there are some other pay-offs in the third game that are fantastic, IMO.

As far as gameplay goes, ME is a hybrid third-person shooter/RPG. They tweak the mechanics a lot between the first two games, emphasizing some of the shooter aspects over classic RPG elements (e.g., the inventory system goes away), and then they tweak them back slightly in the third game. However, I found that even I -- and I generally suck at shooters -- was able to complete all the games on "standard" difficulty without too much trouble. The first and second games have an "easy" mode that is, well, easier. The third game goes one step farther: it has a "narrative" mode, which makes the combat much easier while still giving you all the conversation and story options; as well as the opposite mode -- I forget what it's called -- that gives you lots of hard combat but skips over most of the dialogue.

[melchar.livejournal.com]

I tend to thing that 'ME1 & ME2 are more rpg than shooter. The story and universe are excellent. The in-charactering between Shepard and the world around [him or her] is wonderful. I liked the blended weapon/psi combo classes - and the weapon-play was not difficult for me to do. [And I usually do not do well at twitch games.]

I consider 'Bioshock' to be a fps 1st and foremost that has a great story - with an incredible setting. On 'normal' I was just barely able to keep up with the combat, but the controls [Xbox 360] my 1st play-through were intuitive enough that I could stay alive. Sometimes by accident. ^_^ I got very fond of sniping - and the TK plasmid. The story made the twitch elements bearable - but it was spooky and trippy.

[lamparty.livejournal.com]

I can pretty much tell that the games that I really liked would probably put you to sleep! My all time Favorite was a game by a group of independent programmers that called themselves Mare Crisium! It was called "Stars!", a 4X game, for eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, eXterminate! A turn-based Strategy game and a DOS game at that! Minimal graphics and engrossing game play, even against the AI, but it was mainly a play-by-email game! I still break it out once in a while and use DOSBox in Ubuntu and play against the AI! Last time I had my *ss handed to me very neatly! I've never been able to memorize the twists and turns of the dungeon based first person shooters, or to have the required eye hand coordination to play the Real time Sims! Last one like that I enjoyed was "Elite" on the Atari 1040ST! Still looking for another space based 4X turn based game!

[seawasp]

I'm not terribly into strategy games. I've played Civ (II, IV, V) and AlphaCent, the old Mac game Outpost, and some of the tactics games like FFTactics. Of them I think Alpha Centauri was my favorite.

There was, long ago, a magnificent game for the Atari and Amiga systems called "Sundog", which combined a whole bunch of elements into a single game in a way I had never seen done before or since. I would have liked to have seen that game remade but using the capabilities of modern systems; it would be part explorer, part trader, part RPG, part ship-to-ship fighting game, and part planetary exploration. Some games have approached parts of it, perhaps the closest approach being Escape Velocity and Escape Velocity Nova, but none have quite managed the whole package.