A Person out of Time...

[seawasp]

Over on the Usenet group rec.arts.sf.written, a poster postulated the following:

"Take a guy from the 50s and drop him into a new car and he'll almost certainly be able to drive to the same sort of office he knew and perform the same sort of sales job, just like he's used to doing.  All that's substantially changed is computers, which he'd probably be quickly be able to learn just as well (aka, poorly) as people do these days."

My reaction to this -- and that of several other posters -- was "what are you smoking?"

In my opinion, drop a guy (in sales or marketing) from the 1950s into a 2013 model car, cold, he'll have a hell of a time figuring out how to work the CAR, let alone drive to work. And he'll be utterly at sea with respect to doing his work. As far as I can make out, sales and marketing jobs today are *LIGHTYEARS* different from those done 60 years ago. He'll be having to deal with things ranging from the startlingly annoying ("What do you mean, I can't smoke at my desk?") to the potentially career-ending-in-one-day ("What's wrong, toots? I slapped your ass, sure, it's a nice ass, take it as a compliment, babe!") to the incomprehensible ("Why is there a skinny TV on my desk? Where's my Rolodex? What happened to my PHONE?")


So, fellow readers... what would YOU think will happen to Mr. 1950 Dagwood Bumstead or even Freddy Fastlane salesman/marketer when he steps into his car and finds... he's in the year 2013?

Comments

[autopope.livejournal.com]

So, fellow readers... what would YOU think will happen to Mr. 1950 Dagwood Bumstead or even Freddy Fastlane salesman/marketer when he steps into his car and finds... he's in the year 2013?

"Oh I'm sorry, ma'am, I didn't realize a little bitty car like this would accelerate like that! Let me just get untangled from this bag-thing that popped up -- hey, what happened to your trunk? And my engine? I was only going ten, fifteen miles an hour, tops!"

"I'm sorry, officer, why did you pull me over ... huh? What's a seat-belt?"

"Why are there six cigarette lighter sockets but no lighter and no ash-tray in this pile of plastic junk?"

[kengr]

"I'm sorry, officer, why did you pull me over ... huh? What's a seat-belt?"

We had seatbelts in our car back in 1958 or 59.

Then again, on many cars he won't even be able to *start* it. "Why is it beeping? And what's that funny picture that's flashing on the dashboard?" (the seat belt icon).

And even if he was familiar with seat belts, the shoulder hardness is a whole different thing.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

If he's got a car with the key-that's-not-really-a-key (as is increasingly common over here) he's not even going to be able to start the thing. Possibly not even get into it.

I don't think the physical mechanics of driving once you get the car started are too much different.

Lord help him if he runs out of petrol, though and has to figure out how to open the cap.

[ninjarat.livejournal.com]

You forget that while today's cars may be smaller than their 70 year old counterparts they're still just as heavy. For example, a 1950s-era Buick sedan weighed in at around 4,000 pounds. A mid-sized SUV like a Jeep Liberty tips the scales at... around 4,000 pounds. One of those Buicks with a big straight 8 engine could accelerate from 0-60 in about 12 seconds. The slower ones were in the 15-20 second range. Today's Liberty can do 0-60 in about 17 seconds.

It's a bit of a stacked deck. The Buick is tuned for performance while the Jeep is tuned for torque. There's a "sport" version of the Liberty that can do 0-60 in about 10 seconds. Some of the turbocharged SUVs can do 0-60 in about 6 seconds but they're utterly useless for either towing or off-road.

What I think is the more likely question is, "why doesn't it fly?"

[kengr]

Clothes may be a shock. Especially what teenagers are wearing. His brain may explode before he even gets to work.

Filling up at the gas station "What's a debit card?"

Picturing him trying to figure out the radio.

"What do you mean the speed limit on the freeway is 55?!"

More career enders: the co-worker talking about their same-sex partner. Or the one who's trans.

Heck, the black or asian coworkers.

Oh god, his reaction to the *President*!

and unless he's selling dish soap or food, he likely won't understand the products. "What's an MP3 player and why would anyone care how many giggle-bites it has?"

Even with food or soap he'd have problems. "Heart-Healthy? Omega-3?" "Why are we saying the soap is green? It's *orange*!"

The ad copy that talks down to the "little woman" if it's a household product.

And if he's doing floor sales the number of complaints he'll get regarding the way he talks to almost everybody.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

I just want to say how much I love the phrase "giggle-bites"

[bemused-leftist.livejournal.com]

"This is a phone? No handset. Doesn't even have a dial!"

"Dagwood wants a Rolodex? What's a Rolodex? Where's my little black book?"

"That's an oven in the lounge? Where's the coffeepot? Put a paper cup in the oven?!?"

Manager: "Look, if I have to train someone from the 50s, can't it at least be Dick Tracy?"

[dewline.livejournal.com]

Detective Tracy was at least forward-thinking in technological terms.

[kengr]

Obviously the original poster has never done tech support. Or had to train people who've never used a computer.

Heck, the lack of a dial (if he even has a desk phone).

And even if he survives the first bit, and starts to internalize the "weird" new rules about behavior, he's gonna get a real shock if he tries something and then pulls the "what are you gonna do? It's your word against mine." and gets confronted with cell phone pics, video or even just audio recordings.

cubicle farms will be a shock if he's an "in the office" type. Not a bit like the old row after row of desks. Mind you, in some ways, that'll be a good shock. In others it may encourage him to bad habits, not realizing how the bosses can track his activity (number of calls per hour, call lengths, etc)

[jeriendhal.livejournal.com]

I'd like to think my Dad (born 1924, died 2003) would have done a little better than that. For one thing he was an FCC engineer, so he would have at least have an inkling of the possibilities of an electronic computer and touch tone phone. (and he was married to my Mom, the ex-Marine, so treating women with due deference was an ingrained survival trait)

The car though... "Where's the shift pedal?!"

[fengi.livejournal.com]

Automatic transmission was introduced in 1940 and by 1950 were a standard option. They were used in tanks during WWII and advertised as battle tested. I learned on a shift, the transition was unsettling for a day at most.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

I'm not actually convinced that he'd recognize the monitor as a TV unless it was turned on, and maybe not even then. It's in color!

[bemused-leftist.livejournal.com]

And there must be something wrong with it! The images keep flashing around and growing and shrinking!

[odanu.livejournal.com]

I suspect that the first time he 'flirts' with the 'secretary' (who is actually the head of Marketing) he'll be out on his ass in a hurry. It's the social conventions that will really trip him up.

[fengi.livejournal.com]

In terms of essential operation structure, Cars have changed very little. The internal engineering, some design aspects and additional features have evolved, but the position of ignition key, steering wheel, pedals and turn signals were all established by 1950, including automatic transmission as an option. What confuses 1950s guy would be just a bit more than someone using an unfamiliar car.

If Dagwood was a car mechanic, the decades he missed would leave him barely functional but it would be a lack of current knowledge rather than not knowing where to start.

User interfaces tend to evolve in a coherent fashion. The computer may be a huge leap, but Qwerty is 150 year old. I think 1950s guy might struggle to master new devices and be more astounded by them, but the feeling might linger longer than the ability.

On the other hand, I've dealt with a 30 year old who could barely use an iPhone because it wasn't exactly like whatever device he was used to. Some people mentally reject change no matter how immersed they are. That, however, is a timeless human failing rather than 60 years of change.

Now, each decade prior to 1950 increases the likelihood of inchorence, because so much modern standard practices and technologies were still being decided. Those from before autos became the dominant mode of transit would be overwhelmed for sure.

I agree the thesis conflates the ability to adjust to technology with cultural changes. I can imagine 50s guy having problems with new social conventions, but less with office manners as the changes to time, personal interaction and functionality. I can see him being completely stumped by having to write his own emails, make his own appointments, replying within hours or minutes, fulfilling orders the next day and making sales to basically faceless others and having to make a persuasive argument in a single sentence.

[kateshort.livejournal.com]

I agree with that-- I have an Android Samsung Galaxy smartphone and I can't figure out the iPhone. Or most apple products. :P

[martianmooncrab.livejournal.com]

cars
where is the choke?
how to you trip the reserve tank?
the key goes in the dash, and where is the AM/FM radio?

office
men dont type, where is my secretary to take dictation?
honey, I like my coffee black.

[kengr]

FM radio? In a *car*?

Also, I didn't think reserve tanks were *ever* all that standard. I had a friend whose old pickup truck was set up for one, but didn't have it.

[moth-wingthane.livejournal.com]

I think a lot will depend on the guy picked as well. Pick the 50's equivalent of a tech-nerd and he'd probably fare better than the average. Either way, I'm sure there will be things he understands, things he doesn't and plenty he'll pick up quickly. Either way though, I'd like to be a fly-on-the-wall and see how he gets on. I suspect the thing he'd find hardest to adjust to is the modern-day interpersonal relationship in the office; everything being quick and as impersonal as possible isn't something that many would like, I'm sure.

[kateshort.livejournal.com]

Depending on the model, he could be okay with a car. If it's a key start and not a push-button start, probably could figure it out eventually once it got started and in gear. If it's a push-button start or one of those where you push somewhere on the outside mirror to open the door, then he's screwed.

I think the biggest drawback right off the bat in the actual office would be email and the web. It's one thing to watch a movie or television. It's another to have to type Boolean search terms into Google or Yahoo and to have to get the email address exactly right for whomever it is you're sending something to.

Outside of the physical office, I think the next most difficult thing would be the smartphone. It's part computer, part radio, part telephone, but it is very much unlike any of those from the preceding eras. I've had mine for a year and a half and I still have trouble remembering how to access some of my apps. :P

[dsrtao]

"What's a web page? Is that a page run off on a web press? We ought to be using process color, it's much flashier."

Let's suppose that he steps into the restroom on the 45th floor office of a Madison Avenue ad agency in 195- and when he steps out the door, it's the same ad agency (after acquisitions?) in 2013. He gets mistaken for the new guy and is shown to his cubicle and introduced around.

There are the different ethnicities being treated as equals. There's the sudden lack of female secretaries and the appearance of female co-workers.

The dress code has changed. Most of the men will be wearing what he thinks of as quite casual clothing, and some of them will be apparently dressed for the beach. Some of the women will be wearing loud clothing, but many of them are quite scandalous. Micro-skirts?

There are people with visible tattoos. And they aren't sailors. (Men with earrings, too.)

The lighting is all different. Compact fluorescent? LEDs?

Font choices everywhere are radically different. People have professional printers working on the crap they hang up on the corkboard?

Moving displays everywhere. Things that light up and flash and make bizarre noises.

Marketing campaigns are based on more statistical psychology and surveys; focus groups have come and gone. Social media? Email blitzes? Response rates and immediate feedback? Click-throughs? A-B testing? It's all bizarre.

[autopope.livejournal.com]

You forgot his bewilderment at a 2013 corporate bathroom.

The taps on the sink may well have changed into one of those mixer gadgets with a joystick (pull for pressure, twist for temperature). But that's trivial compared to the airblade hand driers.

[dsgood.livejournal.com]

Language: The "red states" are the conservative states? When did the Minneapolis Loop become Downtown Minneapolis?

New neighborhood names in NYC: DUMBO, Alphabet City, etc.

[kira-snugz.livejournal.com]

If he manages to figure out how to make the car go, he'll spend the rest of the day driving around, giggling, until he runs out of gas or gets pulled over.

[djonn]

I think I come down closer to the r.a.sf.w poster on this one. This is not a question about technology or even about cultural change; it's a question about the ability -- and the skill -- to listen and learn.

To illustrate: I never met my paternal grandfather, as he passed before I was born. But during his lifetime -- the first half of the 20th century -- he saw literal horsepower replaced by several generations of cars, experienced the beginnings of the atomic and space ages, served in a world war, published a book, traveled over a sizeable chunk of Europe, sold my father to some Indians (and got him back again before the negotiations were over), played poker with a French automaker and a tableful of wheat farmers (not in the same game), and did half a dozen different jobs for his primary employer (a major Pacific NW utility company). I have every confidence that if he were transplanted from 1950 (or even 1940) to 2013, he'd adapt easily.

Now in part, I'm stacking the deck here. Two of my grandfather's particular strengths were, in fact, listening (he had a particular knack for picking up languages by ear) and what we refer to broadly as "people skills" -- not precisely salesmanship, but the ability to blend into and manage groups effectively.

But while he's an exceptional case, I think he represents a skill set that the schools (and households) of his time taught rather more effectively than we do in today's public schools. People educated in those schools came out of them not just with subject-matter knowledge, but -- as a rule -- with the ability to learn new skills as the need arose. And as for social interactions...a boor in the '50s is going to be a boor in the '10s, but not all folks from that era were boors, and most are likely to be smart enough to watch and learn before making truly fatal social errors.

Yes, there would be culture shock and tech shock; if you'd translocated my mother from 1955 to today, she'd have some major challenges in learning computer-powered bookkeeping as opposed to doing the same thing with mechanical adding machines and so forth. (Part of the problem would be the laughable excuses for software and technology user's guides printed nowadays, but that applies to all learners, not just the time-displaced ones.) But I think she'd manage it.

[elainegrey.livejournal.com]

I think what drives the diversity of responses is probably the context in which we are talking about the "out of timeness." Are we talking about someone who is popped from the 50s to now with the instruction, "You need to blend in, here's your cover identity, this is your house, you're starting work at Proctor and Gamble on Monday promoting the new product line under the Ivory brand to the few remaining privately owned pharmacies, drug stores, and markets in the tri state area." And then the folks hand him a smart phone, fob to the latest model car, and tell him good luck?

Or are we talking about Great Aunt Maureen finishing her time machine (finally), and pulling her first and only love from out in front the careening bus, saving him from his death then to give him a new life now, leaving everything to him, and helping him get his career restarted?

Bob, our time agent, isn't going to have it easy, and the fish out of water movie plots all happen.

Sam, Great Aunt Maureen's new heir, is going to be coping far better by Friday.

Both Bob and Sam have grounding from the 50s to have mental models that allow them adapt to the technology with time: they won't recognize that glassy slab as a phone if they're looking for a phone, but it's easy enough to explain to them that phones are smaller and use radio waves instead of wires.

As far as culture shock goes, i suspect that it's comparable to that of someone coming to the US from a fairly conservative Islamic country, a provincial region of Japan, or so on. There too, given compassionate Great Aunt Maureen to guide and explain for some months, Sam can probably get by pretty well after a year.

Bob, on his own? Yeah, the other team's time agents are going to get him.

...

I often think about how different the sensory experience would be for someone from before the 1850s. The pervasiveness of brilliant color that would have only been seen on a flower that would fade. Flavors pushed to extremes. Music all the time. Nights blazing with light. Unfamiliar odors (i have no idea if they'd be more pleasant or not.)

[gary-jordan.livejournal.com]

"Take a guy from the 50s and drop him into a new car and he'll almost certainly be able to drive to the same sort of office he knew and perform the same sort of sales job, just like he's used to doing. All that's substantially changed is computers, which he'd probably be quickly be able to learn just as well (aka, poorly) as people do these days."

Those initial conditions are insufficiently specific. For example, let's assume that Drosnic, our guy from the 50s, is in Iran. His job is as a recorder for an Imam. He wakes up, does the pray toward Mecca thing, takes his keys and finds on the street a fairly new Lada. Will he have trouble with it? Doubtful. They started making them in the 70s, but even the 2012 model (the latest and last) won't have all the gizmos that a typical median-value American car has. The Mosque is probably still in he same place. Someone there may even remember him (thinking that the person they remember is his grandfather.) There may be computers there, but his old job may still be done exactly the way it used to be done.

Or maybe he is a Chinese farmer.

Or maybe he lives in India or Pakistan, and you'll be talking to him on tech support about your new tablet. (You may have already done so!)

What if his job was infantry? He lives on base, in barracks (that now seem palatial and cushy with air conditioning and what-not). He'll get a "coworker" to show him how to disassemble, clean, and reassemble his new weapon, and fall right into military discipline.

Now, if he lives in Cupertino, and his wallet contains ID saying he is an employee of something called "Apple"... His Honda Fit may be a bit of a shock. Flagging down a police officer for directions, particularly if she looks in his car and disgustedly says, "Just use your GPS." could be embarrassing. Let's hope she demonstrates how. And then the corporate culture clash...

[muirecan.livejournal.com]

I think people are being overly picky on this. First it will be obvious to him he isn't in the 1950's any more. Second while there are differences most cars still use keys, most offices have regular phones on the desk. Unless he is a complete idiot he will ask for a bit of help at the office to get oriented.

So unless the suggestion is that we have a complete dolt who is a troglodyte who can't ask for orientation in a new office he should be up and running within a week. Possibly faster or slower depending on the person. I'm assuming he will get the usual round of training videos on sex harassment etc that Personnel gives new hires so all speculation on him being a sexual troglodyte is daft. Most men in the 50's didn't act like beasts, some did. So your typical man or woman from the 50's isn't going to be some kind of sexual monster.

Basically if he is an intelligent trained individual depending on personality he will adapt and probably adapt ok. Depending on how fast he can embrace new technologies like the computer, internet, and smartphone he might take off like lightning. I'm thinking of someone at my old job who resisted for years getting a computer and once one was on his desk became a computer fiend. He went from a 1950's level of computer knowledge to very familiar within a month or two.

Honestly most people will adapt and be able to do the job just fine.

[mouser.livejournal.com]

The other night I rewatched "The Day Of The Jackal"

Shot in the 70s about fictional events in the 60s, it's got enough "office" type events that the differences are astounding. People don't realize the revolutionary changes that have been made. I recommend watching it and thinking "Today he would have been found with a few basic emails."


I also recommend rewatching Star Trek and TNG - preferably on an iPad for a true sense of discontinuity.

[bemused-leftist.livejournal.com]

Ftm, Mission Impossible!

But Topkapi still looks fine, though I might expect a little better security outside the museum. And at the border crossing.

[mouser.livejournal.com]

I answer the question...

Drop him in his own 1950s car on the the road and he might not even make it in to the office. There has been a HUGE increase in vehicles, and ignoring the speed limit changes (there were signs back then, and there hasn't been a 55 limit for years!) a five lane highway was NOT something that would be expected!

Once he finds the building (assuming he figures out parking) and maybe be startled by an automatic door! ("My god, I'm in the future!") he's going to find the office building has no elevator operator - of course the buttons are kind of a newish thing and he's seen them in a few places. When he finally gets to his company he's going to be stunned by the lack of a time clock ("I'm now a salary man? Wow!") then be shocked by the lack of an office, stunned when he's pointed to his cubicle, and puts his hat on his desk ("Where's the coat rack?") he's then going to be puzzled by the lack of secretary, and why are there almost NO papers on his desk, nor any IN/OUT box.

Eventually he will figure out the phone, but who to call will be a problem as it's all stored in his computer ("What do you mean, that typewriter and hunk of plastic? 'Computer' is someones job title!")

Some kindly soul will print out his calendar and call sheet, and he'll muddle through making the calls and, after finding a pen - hard to do in some places, making all his notes in the margins he'll survive until lunch.

His coworkers will take him to some place that serve things with spices he's never heard of from countries he never really THOUGHT of imagining, and will listen to talk about things he can't BEGIN to understand and events that happened that SAME morning in places he's never dreamed would matter.

The afternoon would be more of the same, including being told that he'll have to leave the BUILDING to have a smoke break informed H.R. is the new name for Personnel and they wanted to talk to him tomorrow morning about the language he used talking to his (black female) coworker.

After finding out the locks on a 1950 car are not sufficient to stop a thief, and being told by the police not hold his breath, he finally arrives home by taxi, worn, beaten, only to be greeted by his wife who has been watching all KINDS of day time television and has a few things she wants to talk about... so many that she made a list...

[bemused-leftist.livejournal.com]

Driving 60 and 70 and more was legal in the 50s, even on 2-lane roads, as long as you stayed on your side of the yellow stripe, mostly.

[mouser.livejournal.com]

Depends where. Fewer cars, though and far more pedestrians.

With hats.