A new Perspective on "The Incredibles"
Mar. 14th, 2006 07:24 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
seawaspI was musing on this wonderful movie this morning, when it occurred to me, suddenly, that the entire movie's main plot could be viewed as driven, not by Syndrome, but by the Machiavellian maneuverings of Edna Mode.
Consider:
1) Where did Syndrome get his costume? Yes, he COULD have made it himself, but if there was, in fact, a "costumer to the stars" for the Heroes, Syndrome would know. And as a would-be hero, he'd go to her. And he's exactly the sort of guy to peeve Edna enough to get her to make him one WITH a cape.
2) Edna's dissatisfaction with the Status Quo is clear. "I used to design for GODS!" She's annoyed in the extreme.
3) Edna is a perfectionist. She COULD have repaired Bob's suit well enough to be unnoticeable even under pretty close inspection.
(one of the most telling points)
4) Edna didn't tell Bob about the tracking beacon. Edna knew that Bob was sneaking around doing Hero stuff. Unless she had ulterior motives she had no reason NOT to tell Bob about the features in the suits. Instead, WITHOUT telling him, she went ahead and made the suits for the rest of the family.
5) She was clearly WAITING for Helen to call. She could have called her any time, but didn't.
In my theory, this is what happened:
Syndrome finds Edna; convinces her to make him a costume, but makes such a pill of himself that she deliberately makes it with a cape, hoping something will happen to him.
Shortly afterward, supers start disappearing. Edna knows a lot of them even in civilian identities, obviously. Eventually she makes the connection.
Edna is already utterly put out that her entire career was derailed by stupid lawsuits. She wants things back the way they were.
So when Mr. Incredible shows up, clearly the next target of Syndrome, she finally has the perfect setup to put her plan into action. She knows Bob married Helen. She knows -- none better -- that the two have been trying their best to stay "normal". She also knows that with Bob keeping it secret, there is one obvious deduction Helen might draw from Bob's sneaking around.
So she doesn't tell Bob about the beacon or Syndrome. She sews the repair Not Quite Perfect and waits for Helen to call. She leads Helen to figure out Bob's been out behind her back, lying to her about the "job", and then hands her the tracker, knowing the family will confront Syndrome -- almost certainly publicly -- and usher in a new era of the Supers. And give her back her proper place.
All that has transpired here has done so according to my fabulous design, dah-lings.
Consider:
1) Where did Syndrome get his costume? Yes, he COULD have made it himself, but if there was, in fact, a "costumer to the stars" for the Heroes, Syndrome would know. And as a would-be hero, he'd go to her. And he's exactly the sort of guy to peeve Edna enough to get her to make him one WITH a cape.
2) Edna's dissatisfaction with the Status Quo is clear. "I used to design for GODS!" She's annoyed in the extreme.
3) Edna is a perfectionist. She COULD have repaired Bob's suit well enough to be unnoticeable even under pretty close inspection.
(one of the most telling points)
4) Edna didn't tell Bob about the tracking beacon. Edna knew that Bob was sneaking around doing Hero stuff. Unless she had ulterior motives she had no reason NOT to tell Bob about the features in the suits. Instead, WITHOUT telling him, she went ahead and made the suits for the rest of the family.
5) She was clearly WAITING for Helen to call. She could have called her any time, but didn't.
In my theory, this is what happened:
Syndrome finds Edna; convinces her to make him a costume, but makes such a pill of himself that she deliberately makes it with a cape, hoping something will happen to him.
Shortly afterward, supers start disappearing. Edna knows a lot of them even in civilian identities, obviously. Eventually she makes the connection.
Edna is already utterly put out that her entire career was derailed by stupid lawsuits. She wants things back the way they were.
So when Mr. Incredible shows up, clearly the next target of Syndrome, she finally has the perfect setup to put her plan into action. She knows Bob married Helen. She knows -- none better -- that the two have been trying their best to stay "normal". She also knows that with Bob keeping it secret, there is one obvious deduction Helen might draw from Bob's sneaking around.
So she doesn't tell Bob about the beacon or Syndrome. She sews the repair Not Quite Perfect and waits for Helen to call. She leads Helen to figure out Bob's been out behind her back, lying to her about the "job", and then hands her the tracker, knowing the family will confront Syndrome -- almost certainly publicly -- and usher in a new era of the Supers. And give her back her proper place.
All that has transpired here has done so according to my fabulous design, dah-lings.
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no subject
Date: 2006-03-15 01:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-15 01:12 am (UTC)May I link this?
no subject
Date: 2006-03-15 01:31 am (UTC)I can definitely see Edna as the secret mastermind; but I think the plan as you've outlined it leaves way too much to chance and coincidence. Edna would do better than that.
What I wonder is if the Feds weren't quietly backing Syndrome in his ongoing effort to wipe out all the supers. The supers were expensive to keep in hiding, plus you never knew when they might take it into their heads to start being activist again; clearly they were much better gotten rid of... discreetly and with deniability, of course. It wouldn't have been hard for them to find out about Syndrome; you don't build a secret high-tech lair like that without leaving some kind of invoice trail.
Hmm. Maybe Mirage was the government agent in his organization. No real evidence for that, but it's an interesting possibility.
By the way, did David Brin ever post an essay describing how Syndrome was really the good guy, trying to make superpowers available to everyone and combating the evil elitists "superheroes" who thought they were better than everyone else because of their genes? Because I can't believe Brin would miss out on an opportunity to deconstruct popular entertainment in a contrarian way.
no subject
Date: 2006-03-15 01:38 am (UTC)As to Edna Mode, puppetmaster-diva, well... it was writer/director Brad Bird doing her voice... *grin*
-- Steve's a total raving fan for that flick.
no subject
Date: 2006-03-15 02:05 am (UTC)I'm thinking it was more like they were keeping an eye on him, and perhaps even discreetly helping him as long as all he was doing was killing supers. They doubtless had plans to take him down when he got done with the supers; but I suspect they were taken by surprise by his "giant robot attack" plan.
no subject
Date: 2006-03-15 02:12 am (UTC)-- Steve'd think that the government would want to keep a stable of "reliable" Supers on tap for future use, in case the Red Menace (or its equivalent in the Incrediverse) gets rambunctious.
I
Date: 2006-03-15 02:29 am (UTC)Edna is my idol. :)
But of course.
Date: 2006-03-15 02:53 am (UTC)Doesn't quite work.
Date: 2006-03-15 03:03 am (UTC)As far as invoice trails, this is a superhero world. Things don't WORK that way. He paid in cash and had things built by the Evil HQ Construction Company (Self Destruct included FREE with every base!)
Syndrome already DID that monologue; Brin couldn't do it any better. Besides, I think I did that better than Brin did, when I posted my proof that Yoda was the bad guy in the Star Wars series.
Re: I
Date: 2006-03-15 03:04 am (UTC)Re: Doesn't quite work.
Date: 2006-03-15 04:00 am (UTC)Do you have a link to that, maybe?
Re: But of course.
Date: 2006-03-15 04:24 am (UTC)Done ;)
I may or may not see you at I-Con. Since I've got Lunacon the week before and FKO the week after, it's still iffy. But it's LOCAL...
no subject
Date: 2006-03-15 04:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-15 05:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-15 11:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-15 11:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-15 12:14 pm (UTC)Teddy
no subject
Date: 2006-03-15 02:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-15 03:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-15 03:09 pm (UTC)She expected Helen to be angry that Bob was doing superstuff- it never occurred to her that another interpretation could be placed on Bob's extracurricular activity...
no subject
Date: 2006-03-15 03:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-15 03:36 pm (UTC)I don't remember if someone pointed this out to me or if I figured it out for myself, but I remember having this discussion (at the very least offline, with my wife) while the movie was still in theaters. (Note that "I remember" doesn't mean "this is what happened:" it's not a very clear memory).
Re: Doesn't quite work.
Date: 2006-03-15 03:38 pm (UTC)Yeah...
Date: 2006-03-15 04:26 pm (UTC)Me, I prefer the interpretation that the "real world" is nothing of the sort. No one ever LEFT the Matrix in those films. Even the machines.
Not even that...
Date: 2006-03-15 04:29 pm (UTC)But yes, Edna expected Helen to get up and go right away, and couldn't believe how much playing the Housewife role for 15 years had changed her. So she gave Helen a reality check and kicked her out the door.
Of COURSE I did, Dahling...
Date: 2006-03-15 04:37 pm (UTC)Re: Of COURSE I did, Dahling...
Date: 2006-03-15 05:10 pm (UTC)Re: Of COURSE I did, Dahling...
Date: 2006-03-15 06:04 pm (UTC)(I know how Syndrome survives his "accident", too; can't have a villain really, truly die after his first appearance, you know.)
Re: But of course.
Date: 2006-03-15 06:04 pm (UTC)Re: Of COURSE I did, Dahling...
Date: 2006-03-15 07:06 pm (UTC)As for other supers, you can always assert that (a) Syndrome missed some of the public supers; (b) there were an arbitrary number of covert supers that Syndrome never knew about; and/or (c) new supers have been born/had laboratory accidents/picked up oddly glowing mystical artifacts/been exposed to weird radiation/dedicated themselves to revenge on all criminals since the older generation went into hiding.
Re: Of COURSE I did, Dahling...
Date: 2006-03-15 07:18 pm (UTC)Well, the thing is that if I want to use the lovely background info they supply, I have to reduce Syndrome's deathtoll, or 90% of those backgrounds are toast. We SEE them listed as terminated in the KRONOS files.
(b) there were an arbitrary number of covert supers that Syndrome never knew about;
Sure. Undoubtedly, even some that the GOVERNMENT never knew about.
and/or (c) new supers have been born/had laboratory accidents/picked up oddly glowing mystical artifacts/been exposed to weird radiation/dedicated themselves to revenge on all criminals since the older generation went into hiding.
Or all at once? (flashing back to the "What's New with Phil and Dixie" superhero strip and the "overdoing your origin story" panels)
Obviously PCs would probably be in the "new supers" group.
no subject
Date: 2006-03-16 01:57 am (UTC)It all hinges on Edna Mole designing all or most of the supers costumes, such that she was THE only logical choice for Syndrome to go to.
But the fact that some many of the supers wore capes suggests that most didn't go to her. There is at least one other designer out there who DOES like capes.
And considering this one or more designers seem to have designed for far more supers than Edna did, it now seems hard to say that Syndrome necessarily must have gotten his suit from her.
Nope, not at all.
Date: 2006-03-16 03:26 am (UTC)Unfortunately, that was shortly before the Supers got Super-sued and went into hiding.
no subject
Date: 2006-03-17 09:07 pm (UTC)SHH!
Date: 2006-03-17 09:33 pm (UTC)Re: SHH!
Date: 2006-03-17 09:56 pm (UTC)(just kidding)
no subject
Date: 2006-03-18 09:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-30 04:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-30 05:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-30 06:01 pm (UTC)Yes.
Date: 2006-03-30 06:28 pm (UTC)Re: Of COURSE I did, Dahling...
Date: 2006-03-30 07:36 pm (UTC)Sure, but maybe they faked their deaths. For some of them this might almost be reflexive.
"Hmm, some unknown villain is trying to kill me after all these years. I'll let him think he succeeded then lay low and see what happens next."
Re: Of COURSE I did, Dahling...
Date: 2006-03-30 08:19 pm (UTC)For some of them, maybe, but that's really much MORE often a Supervillain schtick, not a superhero schtick. If there are some Wolverine/Batmanesque types in that list, yeah, I could see that. Some of them it's awfully hard to justify, though. Gazerbeam, for instance, isn't merely dead, he's really most sincerely dead.
And you'd think that most of those Supers would've sounded the alarm rather shortly after escaping Syndrome's trap, if they managed it. Sure, go to ground for a while, but given Nomanisan Island as the killing ground, you'd think it'd be pretty obvious that you weren't the ONLY candidate. A few might not care, but most of them would react the same way Mr. Incredible did at the idea of some psycho killing off Supers.
Re: Of COURSE I did, Dahling...
Date: 2006-03-30 08:48 pm (UTC)No question.
This is a problem even without faked deaths. I don't remember which version of the Evil Killing Machine was finally sent out against Mr. Incredible, but all the previous versions had gone against another super and lost. In no instance, as far as we know (and barring some sort of government cover-up) was any sort of alarm sounded.
Re: Yes.
Date: 2006-03-30 10:21 pm (UTC)Re: Of COURSE I did, Dahling...
Date: 2006-03-31 12:10 am (UTC)The Golden Age is dead, long live the Silver Age.
no subject
Date: 2006-03-31 12:22 am (UTC)I'm sorry, Wasp, but meh.
Once again, you've taken something that was good and simple and fun (and meant to be that way by the creator, IMO) and added another layer of complication... why? To show everyone how clever you are by twisting the facts to support an entirely different conclusion? Because complexity itself is beautiful (fractals, nebulae, microscopic vistas), and therefore More Complexity is Always Good? Because you proceed from the assumption that people are manipulative and dishonest?
I'm not buying it, just like I didn't buy your last pet theory. Lucas may have stumbled as a storyteller, but I think it's pretty clear what story he was trying to tell. Same here with Bird.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Bah.
Date: 2006-03-31 12:41 am (UTC)I'm sorry, Wasp, but meh.
Pfui back at you. And I've had lots of validation so far! So there! NYAAAAH!
Once again, you've taken something that was good and simple and fun (and meant to be that way by the creator, IMO) and added another layer of complication... why?
Because I could. (And because I'm RIGHT!)
To show everyone how clever you are by twisting the facts to support an entirely different conclusion?
Yes.
Because complexity itself is beautiful (fractals, nebulae, microscopic vistas), and therefore More Complexity is Always Good?
Of course.
Because you proceed from the assumption that people are manipulative and dishonest?
Actually, no, that's pretty much the opposite of my worldview.
I'm not buying it, just like I didn't buy your last pet theory.
I don't expect people to "buy" it. I expect it to amuse people. Which it appears to have done pretty well.
Lucas may have stumbled as a storyteller, but I think it's pretty clear what story he was trying to tell. Same here with Bird.
No, no, major difference. Lucas' later stuff *SUCKED*, and contradicted prior material. The Yoda Theory was pretty much exploded by the sixth movie (unless I get REALLY Byzantine in the explanations), but unfortunately that left just, basically, suckitude.
The Incredibles, by contrast, was all good. (Of course, it's also not a series, so it hasn't had time to contradict itself in incredibly stupid ways; I suppose if Disney does a sequel (instead of Pixar doing it) we could achieve Star Warsian levels of suckitude in the sequels)
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
no subject
Date: 2006-04-09 10:51 pm (UTC)