Today, an essay...

[seawasp]

... on Superheroes Who Should Not Be Dark, up on my website today!

Comments

[nuranar.livejournal.com]

I've felt this very strongly. *stands up and cheers* Moral ambivalence can have its place in certain stories. But without the compass, it's all meaningless.

I'm pretty concerned about Civil War, too, although they've handled Cap okay until now.

[q99.livejournal.com]

-There are, of course, other characters who really, really shouldn't be presented too darkly; Wonder Woman certainly can have an edge, but she, also, is supposed to be an example to the world, and being too dark does not help this.-

People note that she's a warrior, but miss that: 1) Originally, she never used a sword (and I dislike it's addition), because she fought to subdue, and 2) she is a diplomat/ambassador.

She should be the first to talk and one of the big 3 that talks down and reforms foes the most. Sure, she's from a culture that fights and fighting is something she even enjoys, but she's not Xena with powers, let alone some of her darker versions.



Also, you may like this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIKYRZc9A1M

Which is about how a lot of people put Nietzsche's Ubermensch onto Superman, and that's really not him, he's much more a celebration of Kantian ethics.

[dragoness-e.livejournal.com]

Thor has an interesting dichotomy, historically: when he's on Earth playing superhero, he works best as fairly bright and upbeat, like Superman. However, when he's doing Asgardian stuff, he can get as grim as the Eddas, because he's straight out of them. Walt Simonson's epic run on Thor was pretty grim and dark for the Thor comic, but it was Norse mythic dark.

[seawasp]

I loved Simonson's run, but I didn't see it as very dark. Or rather, EVENTS could be very dark, but for the most part THOR was light, which fit with his comic book AND mythic character. Yes, the myth version sometimes tended more toward Boisterous Bruiser, but he always was generally a friend to mortals and on the side of good.

[q99.livejournal.com]

Right! Some writers think that in order to convey the weight of an event, everything around it must be dark. Which is dead wrong.

[xander-opal.livejournal.com]

Well put.
Some people really dislike Superman for his unflagging idealism. Without bright ideals, though, life is an ever-darkening spiral into oblivion.
Captain America embodies not just 'Truth, Justice, and (the ideal of) The American Way,' also the characteristics ascribed to WWII soldiers, the lessons learned in the Great Depression. A simpler time, though the people were hardly simple themselves.

When these characters, or even this aspect of these characters is lost, there is a lesson: the price of doing the Right Thing is less than the horrible cost of doing the Expedient Thing.

I recall a scene from a comic some time ago, where Batman was asked what he would do if he were forced to make a choice between saving himself or The Joker. Or was it save an innocent or The Joker? Either way, the first line from his response was, "I would never be put in that situation." The rest was that he would find a way to keep others from dying. Even his worst enemy.

Some might see a superhero's code of ethics and ideals as a straightjacket. The rest of us see them as a cape.

[full-metal-ox.livejournal.com]

If you don't mind my nitpicking a factual point: wasn't it Freddy Freeman (Captain Marvel Junior--I presume he's now Shazam Junior)--who was crippled?

(And, speaking of the Big Cheese Platter--grimdark Mary Marvel? Seriously?)

[seawasp]

The original Captain Marvel's mortal form was crippled also. Freddy was a back-reference to that, as I understand.

Yeah, they grimdarked her REALLY badly.

[q99.livejournal.com]

I thought Billy was just a homeless little kid?

-Yeah, they grimdarked her REALLY badly. -

Incredibly badly. In ways that didn't even fit the story.