seawasp | Now THERE's a review!

As I've mentioned before, Boundary -- and for that matter all the stuff I've been involved in writing -- seems to bring out totally polarized reviews; either people really like it or they hate it, with very few "well, it was okay" comments.

Here's a man who REALLY didn't like Boundary. I love this one!

(One star) another piece of garbage..., October 1, 2006
Reviewer: david in georgia (Georgia (USA)) - See all my reviews
...from Baen books, trading on a well-known name (Flint's) being slapped on the cover to sell a bit of rubbish that reads as if it wasn't even proofread much less put thru anything resembling a serious editing process. Clunky, trite and a waste of time and the purchase price. I'm not sure there was a single scene or idea in this book that wasn't stolen from earlier works...not a single original idea in the whole thing, unless doing something worse than anyone has done it before counts as "original."

C'mon, david in georgia, don't be shy. Tell me how you REALLY felt.

I'm a bit put out by the "wasn't even proofread" bit, because I know it was. As for the rest, it's just another illustration of that wonderful variation in perception. When "david in georgia" can say "not an original idea in the whole thing" and even suspect all the scenes were stolen, and others find it an exciting and original story, you KNOW that much of reading remains in the mind of the beholder, so to speak.

Of course he's totally right in one sense; there isn't an original idea in that book, really; then again, I'm not sure I've seen an original idea in ANY book in the past several years, so I would be reluctant to use that as a yardstick to judge anything I read.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

cicadabug.livejournal.com

I don't think you should take complaints about editing seriously from a person who uses the word "thru".

From:

baronger.livejournal.com

After taking folklore in college, I can say that really there isn't an original idea anywhere. Folklore has a huge list of the common themes, ect. that are nicely numbered. Still it is sort of like good food, there are only a limited number of possible tastes, yet it is in the mixing and matching that we get a variety of delicious foods.

From:

mazarinade.livejournal.com

Really a numbered list of all the themes? Fifteen minutes of googling hasn't turned up anything promising - is it published anywhere?

From:

meril.livejournal.com

The book, IIRC, is called The Types of the Folktale. If I wasn't headed for work, I'd find more information on it. It's a rather old book, too.

From:

mazarinade.livejournal.com

Thanks - with those words I was able to conjure the Benevolent Spirit of Google and I should be able to track down a copy now.

From:

seawasp

Take them seriously. If I did, they'd annoy me instead of entertain me. But I know there are benighted fools out there who actually don't like DOC SMITH, for cryin' out loud, so I can't very well expect them to all like ME.

From:

odanu.livejournal.com

exactly. And how the HELL did I miss the publication of your latest book?

From:

odanu.livejournal.com

After looking through the reviews, it appears that people who don't like ideas in their books and "boring exposition", don't like your books. That might be why I like your writing so much.

From:

seawasp

Well, according to some, there AREN'T any ideas in my book. :)

From:

denubis.livejournal.com

Well, this is quite depressing. Who, exactly, is Doc Smith? (Yes, I asked google and the wikipedia, but a) I'm in the middle of grading, and b) I'm not sure which book to read first.

Not of course that you need the praise from some no-name infoTech graduate student, but I quite liked Boundary. The schlock mercenary themes were quite amusing and it was a good read. (Of course, I liked the infoTech-fu of Digital Knight a little better, but not all heroes can be IT people.)

On a completely random note, have you read Vinge's Rainbows End or PTerry's Wintersmith? They both have some interesting resonance with your work.

From:

seawasp

I can ALWAYS use praise! The nice thing about having a strong ego is that you can be pleased by praise and let insults sheet off your back like rain. :)

I'm glad you liked DK and Boundary; A.J. is sort of info-tech, but he's MUCH more Tech than Jason Wood is. (OTOH, Jason Wood lives in a world that's got more possibilities than A.J.'s.)

Did you read "Diamonds Are Forever"? I wonder how you liked Clint and Jodi...

I have not yet read the new Vinge, but I will, I'm sure. He was the inspiration for A.J.'s Faerie Dust -- the "localizers" from A Deepness in the Sky -- and for some work I'm actually doing with the Navy.

From:

denubis.livejournal.com

Lets see. I quite liked Diamonds, a nice yarn. Again, geo/sensing-tech isn't my primary area, but I can respect those areas -- for they use far too much super-crunchy math. (I'm Databases and HCI, myself).

And if you liked localizers and mesh networks you *must* read Rainbows End -- he explores that stuff in a near-term "real world" context.

And yes, while A.J. has far more tech then Jason, I can relate far more to Jason's tech, especially his data mining. (I'm TAing a course in data warehousing right now.) And as an interesting aside, I didn't find anything objectionable in terms of your use of database tech, and I complement you on your knowledge of them (while most sci-fi isn't as egregious as hacker movies, they tend either to do databases as hand-waving or just make up new terms and ignore the current terms of art).

From:

seawasp

Yes, the geomapping stuff they were doing in "Diamonds" was very crunchy (and you probably noticed was re-used in Boundary to some extent) and based on stuff my current employers had worked on.

Jason's profession is one that I do know a fair bit about, as I have a Master's in Information Science (UPitt) and I focused a fair amount on databases, HCI, and some assorted other pieces. I try to "write what you know" when possible. A.J.'s Faerie Dust is a (large) extrapolation from a couple of projects my current employer has going, and much of the other sensor/imaging crunchiness comes from that source as well.

From:

denubis.livejournal.com

Well, if you ever want to use me as a resource for database/HCI info, I'd love to chat. Beyond that, the faerie dust as an extrapolation is both quite cool and really bloody scary. (And the use of sensing devices as jewelry is even more so, especially if they're still live. While: "Honey, you took your ring off when you walked into that room. What did you have to hide?" lacks a certain subtlety, it does illustrate the point.)

From:

seawasp

The man who uses that jewelry THAT way will die alone, friendless, and ball-less.

From:

denubis.livejournal.com

Without question, especially considering the current owners of the jewelry. However, that being said, his dust probably can be used in that fasion. (Both in a Vingian wearable computing sense, in an espionage sense by the owners of the rings, and in a very quickly and painfully terminal sense used in the original example's fashion. ) Considering that he can make rings out of it, making it support "epiphany brand" clothing would be quite trivial and extremely useful. Have you explored the implications of the dust in this fashion?

From:

denubis.livejournal.com

Wow, I used the word fashion FAR too many times in that post. I think my brain has gone home for the night.

From:

seawasp

It is clear that you have not registered to read my stuff ahead of time, so to speak, or you would know the answers to these, and many other, questions. *evil grin*

The community rykspoor_beta is where I have been posting my Work In Progress, including a large chunk of my proposed next solo novel Demons of the Past, parts of two new Jason Wood stories, and the entire rough first draft of Threshold (sequel to Boundary).

From:

seawasp

This section of your message deserved a separate reply.

E.E. "Doc" Smith was the founder and true master of the subgenre of SF called "Space Opera". His most famous and influential works are undoubtedly the Lensman Series and the Skylark Series. Doc's work influenced virtually all of the writers that came after him; even those trying to avoid writing like him were backhandedly influenced.

The number of "Did That First" things that can be attributed to Doc is impressively large; a small sample includes the fact that in The Skylark of Space he wrote the first adventure to take place outside the bounds of the Solar System, that he first depicted a large, multispecies cooperative civilization (rather than either all-human or human with subjugated other species), that he devised a methodology for controlling truly large fleets across distances which was so usefully accurate that the U.S. Navy derived its C&C doctrine directly from his work in Second Stage Lensmen (specifically acknowledged by Admiral Rickover), and dozens of others.

His stories always featured larger-than-life heroes and villains conducting their conflicts on an epic scale; destroying planets was small stuff to Doc. He is often accused of sexism, clumsy writing, and a host of other sins... but given that he was born in the 1800s and published Skylark in 1928-29, his stories were actually forward-looking and well written.

But by modern standards, his prose is often purple, ranging to ultraviolet, the characters are indeed very little gray, and most of the plots are straightforward and uncomplicated. If you can read Verne and Wells without flinching, you may be able to take Doc.

From:

denubis.livejournal.com

Shiny. I'll add them to my to-download list.

Much obliged.

From:

seawasp

Download? Are ELECTRONIC versions available now???

From:

denubis.livejournal.com

Officially? No. Legally? Maybe. Available? Yes. I'd prefer not to discuss how in a public forum, however. Contact me in some private electronic form, and we can chat about it. Aside from the contact methods in my user-info, I also use gTalk (I wonder if the unicode conversion will actually prevent spam harvesting.): denubisx@gmail.com

From:

seawasp

No, I don't want to know (no offense). Doc's stuff should be official and paid for; the Lensmen would expect no less. Doc was, quite likely, the most powerful single influence in my literary/writing life; seeing the display on his work that was shown at Worldcon a couple years ago was the closest thing to a religious experience I've ever had. And I'm pretty sure that the family hasn't okayed putting the things up for download. (I've met them; nice people)

From:

denubis.livejournal.com

Ok -- as a side note, to a first approximation, his works haven't been renewed in the copyright office, so most of them have entered the public domain.

(Specifically, the only entry relating to his books in the 1978-onward renewals was due to extensive editing by another contributor, and I couldn't find a renewal notice in the 1975-1978 renewals of his name or earliest book.)

But, yes, I understand your hesitation and no offense has been taken. No worries.

From:

seawasp

Um, current copyright is Life Plus 50 or possibly Life Plus Seventy Five. Doc died in 196...5, I think, which means the EARLIEST they can enter PD is 2015.

I don't have to "renew" copyright or register it. The messages we are posting are automatically copyrighted, in fact, by us. Registering merely makes some legal maneuvers easier.

From:

denubis.livejournal.com

While that's true for content produced now, according to Cornell's Copyright Information Center (http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/training/Hirtle_Public_Domain.htm#Footnote_7) which seems a credible enough source, works written in 1923-1963, and who were not renewed are now in the public domain. Setting aside a debate on the value of these copyright laws, most of his works do seem to be in the public domain. Of course, I may not have looked at the right places searching for renewals but the project gutenberg transcriptions of those years did not seem to hold an entry.

Oh well. This "debate" is academic and while usefully distracting me from grading, is pretty much without merit. Cest la vie.

From:

ross-teneyck.livejournal.com

FWIW, Project Gutenberg does not appear to have any of Doc Smith's books -- and I'm pretty positive that Gutenberg would have them if they were public domain.

From:

seawasp

... your request to join the betareading list.

The FIRST sections of Threshold that were posted you can skip; I posted a few snippets, then on reader reaction re-wrote the beginning. other than that, go to the first messages and read away.

Note that questions about things like space elevators, etc., have already been mostly dealt with. My current thorny problem is rad shielding.

From:

kengr

Who, exactly, is Doc Smith?

Edward E. Smith

Author of the Skylark series and the Lensman series.

The former was the first *interstellar* adventure in SF and was mostly written *before* the end of WWI (yes, *one*) though it wasn't published until the 1920s.

The Lensman series was the original Space Opera tale.

When reading his stuff like a lot of early Heinlein, you have to pay attention to *when* it was written as the "over used themes" are actually being used for the *first* time.

In otherwords, these are the folks everyone else tried to copy.

From:

mazarinade.livejournal.com

Yup. Taking Amazon reviews seriously is one of those roads that leads to posting reviews that compare published works unfavourably with your own stuff and arguing with reviewers in the comments section.

It's like Eric says, you're better off with reviews at both ends of the spectrum than with everything at one end or the other. Or, most damning of all, everything in the middle.

Anyway, the ones to care about are the ones the chain-store buyers look at, since that's the publicity that gets you on the shelves.

From:

seawasp

... stupid enough to start a flamewar in Amazon comment sections; that always looks dumber for the author than for the outside commentator.

Now the question is... which ones DO the chain-store buyers look at?

From:

mazarinade.livejournal.com

.. stupid enough to start a flamewar in Amazon comment sections; that always looks dumber for the author than for the outside commentator.

Which has not stopped several Medium-to-Large Names from actually indulging in the practice.

... which ones DO the chain-store buyers look at?

Eric's got the complete list. I do know that Booklist influences some of them a bit, and librarians very heavily, which is why I've been chortling over the really glowing advance copy Toni emailed me this morning. Many many copies sold, that.

From:

dsgood.livejournal.com

In sf, the answer to "Has this idea been used?" is almost always "Yes, at least twenty years before you think it possibly could have been."

John Brunner and Andy Offut did come up with one rather new idea each. It was the same idea, and their stories were published around the same time. (There's only a limited number of human souls, and when the human population goes above that number, there are problems.)

F.M. Busby came up with a new (I think) idea in The Breeds of Man. However, he used it as a twist ending -- possibly workable for a short story, but not for a novel.

From:

aardy.livejournal.com

FWIW, getting a starred review in Booklist or one of the other such journals is a near-guarantee that libraries all over the country will purchase one (or more) copies of a book. Publishers Weekly, Library Journal, Kliatt, VOYA, and Horn Book/Horn Book Guide are a few of the others. (And if something is not reviewed in any of those at all, then it often won't be purchased, due to the requirement at some libraries that all purchases must have been positively reviewed in at least one, and sometimes three, of such journals. And due to the fact that, with so many books published each year, the only way some library selectors manage to stay on top of genres they don't normally read--especially Fantasy & SF--is by selecting books that get reviewed in one of those journals.) Also, note that some of those journals NEVER do negative reviews--if something gets reviewed negatively, the journal simply doesn't print a review of that book at all. So getting reviewed there is a good thing, but not getting reviewed just means you didn't get reviewed.

I see two libraries in my consortium own Boundary, but mine isn't one of them. Will have to see if I can put a bug in someone's ear to rectify that...

By the by, if you haven't seen the comment yet-- my co-worker may have found your "What book is this?" book #1. Once you give a thumbs-up or -down on that one, she'll either die happy or start looking again.

From:

seawasp

If you go to Amazon you can see that it DID get (positively) reviewed by "School Library Journal", something that pleased me immensely. It sounded like a review for a RAH-juvie type book, and higher praise I couldn't ask for.

Publisher's Weekly and the others, I don't think did. Maybe they'll do Threshold.

As you may have noticed, no, your friend has not nailed it, unfortunately. :(

From: (Anonymous)

Excellent book! My question is; it strikes me that there will be a follow-up to this book. I would like to think that I am correct, as the plot was interesting to say the least. The ending has been resolved so to speak, but I can visualize book #2 coming out. (please say yes)
Neil Mundreon gutbomb@shaw.ca