seawasp | Tell me about the Consoles...

It appears the much-anticipated PS3 may be a POS. In addition to other apparent issues, they appear to have screwed up the single major selling point for my purposes: namely, backwards compatibility. Now, MAYBE they'll fix it. But still, I hadn't bothered looking into the alternatives because I wasn't likely to switch horses in mid-stream.

I currently have a PS2. I had promised my son he'd get that when I got my next console. So, I want to look at the choices.

One possibility is just to get a new PS2 and give him the old one. If new PS2 games are likely to come out for some years yet, that might be a simple, inexpensive move.

I know next to nothing about the other game consoles -- prices, games available and likely to be available, and so on.

My gaming focus is almost ENTIRELY RPG oriented, with a few minor Fighting Game exceptions. I have no (repeat, no, nil, nada) interest in internet-connected games, in Halo/other FPS games, etc.

SO what's the skinny on the other current and forthcoming consoles -- the XBox, the Xbox 360, the Nintendo Wii (how do you SAY that one anyway?), etc.? Which one will give me the best games, gameplay, and usability for the next few years?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

howardtayler.livejournal.com

I'm probably in the minority here, but I think the Wii is going to be the most stable out-of-the-gate offering, and is the most innovative next-generation console available. While Sony and Microsoft shoot for "higher polygon count" and "we take your money every month for online stuff," I see Nintendo actually trying to take gaming someplace new.

Off the couch.

I'll be getting a Wii (rhymes with "we" and "wee") as soon as Sandra tells me we have the money to.

--Howard

From:

corvidophile.livejournal.com

i think it has a lot to do with what a person grew up with (or if they are influenced by having kids) and what types of games they play, but i'll have to disagree hehe

the Wii is not a innovative console, the controller may be. they didn't invent the controller and its been done on the pc long before nintendo borrowed and refined it. yeah, the controller is neat but its not an end all be all to the controller. its like a track ball, standard joystick, mouse, keyboard, or light gun in that there is a game that will play really well with a particular controller, but it doesn't do well on everything well. the nintendo controller is like that, sure it will play some games really well and enhance them but it will suck with others.

secondly, nintendo is bad value for the money. because nintendo has the policy of always making $ on every sale. so when they sell the Wii they are making $ on it so you're getting poor technology (comparitively). with a 360 or a ps3 you're getting superior technology for your money since they are selling them at a loss. its like asking which would you rather have: a vw bug for 20k or a ferrari for 25k? though the one is more, you are getting what you pay for (in upgraded technology) with the higher price.

From:

howardtayler.livejournal.com

Right now the recall rate on 360s is embarrassing -- THAT is what you get out of the gate from Microsoft. Sony's PS3 is likely to be similar.

Poor technology? That's a ridiculous claim. Bad value? Equally ridiculous. Your analogy of "bug vs ferarri" is wildly overstated -- the technology is more like "lexus vs cadillac," in which Microsoft and Sony get to play the part of "Detroit." (Oh, and the Ferarri has a horrible maintenance record compared to similar vehicles -- nice choice there.)

The Wii is priced better than either of the other two offerings, is backwards-compatible with not just the GC games, but also the GC controllers (putting your controller complaint to bed permanently), and Nintendo's track record for solid hardware is unsurpassed in the console industry.

The only reasonable complaints are as follows:

1) Nintendo's online offering is immature and unproven at best.
2) The nunchuk controller is a new thing, and may prove to be nothing more than a cult-following novelty
3) Nintendo's stable of games and third-party developers is much smaller than Microsoft's or Sony's.

That said, Nintendo's exclusive properties (Mario, Metroid, Zelda, etc) are far and away superior to anybody else's. If you haven't been playing titles like "Mario Strikers" (soccer) or "Mario Kart", you're missing out on some of the very most entertaining, playable, and RE-playable games out there. Don't dismiss them as "cartoony" until you've played them.

From:

argonel.livejournal.com

I think the rule of thumb is still bearing up, never buy anything from Microsoft until version 3, so the next incarnation of the X-box (Whatever comes out after the 360) may be a winner.

From:

anton-p-nym.livejournal.com

Mmmm, not so much as far as consoles go in my limited experience. My XBox has been really stable and reliable, and I've had no problems with it since I picked it up 30 months ago. (Though my XBox build is from after the 3rd hardware revision...)

-- Steve will agree that the first version of *anything* has its aggrevations. However, the 360 is rumoured to be going through a hardware revision sometime next spring or so.

From:

howardtayler.livejournal.com

My first Xbox was 1st generation, and was awful. And I heard from everybody that the problems I was having were pretty much global problems.

My 2nd Xbox was 3rd generation, and works like a charm.

If there's an Xbox 360 in my future, it's 2 revisions from now. :-)

From:

seawasp

... Mario is to me one of the most inexplicably popular properties in the world. I remember the damn original Donkey Kong and everything after, and NONE of them were in any way, shape, or form appealing to me. I hate that little plumber.

Zelda I've never actually played, but it's an RPG so that's a plus. Whether it can actually be better than the Final Fantasy (currently a Sony exclusive) or other Square-Enix offerings is a different matter.

Backwards compatibility with the GameCube is a major plus, however. Two consoles, effectively, for the price of one.

The lower price is another plus.

From:

anton-p-nym.livejournal.com

Um, at least one Final Fantasy title is coming to the 360... can't remember which one, though.

-- Steve has a die-hard PS2 fan as a friend, and said friend grumbled incessantly after the announcement.

From:

ross-teneyck.livejournal.com

Google claims FFXI, which is of little interest to me... I've dabbled in MMORPGs, mostly because my stepbrother works for Sony Online; but I've never really gotten into them.

From:

seawasp

... Innovation means nothing to me. I still enjoy playing Chrono Trigger, which came out for the SNES. What means something to me is plotline and game availability.

And as for the car, I'd rather have a secondhand VW rabbit at $500 that outperforms the bug and costs 50 times less than the ferrari. I don't see any difference between the Bug and the Ferrari for MY purposes at all (in fact, the Bug will likely last longer and cost less to fix).

From:

corvidophile.livejournal.com

the Nofriendo system is pronounced "Wee" as in 'i gotta go wee.' gheyest name evah.

its unfortunate you don't like the Halo types of games. Gears of War was just released (360) and it kicks all sorts of proverbial gaming butt hehe. ;D

but if you like the CRPG games, try out the Final Fantasy series on the PSP. of the big 3 consoles, prob Sony has the most (due to ff rpg). i'd say sony, nint, and 360 in that order, but there are some rpg on each system and there are a few good ones out or coming for the 360 (obilivion, blue dragon, lost odyssey).

(we've had every game system except the nintendo (which just screams kiddie games), and our favourite for performance/graphics/etc. is the Xbox/360. but then again we are heavy into FPS types, driving games, hockey/soccer/etc. =/ )

From:

seawasp

.... I've ALREADY GOT the PS2. And I had the PSX before. So all OLD RPGs I've probably already played (FF, CT, Star Ocean, etc).

I'm looking for what to choose for the future...

From:

anton-p-nym.livejournal.com

I haven't been keeping too close a track on the RPG market out there... I'm an actioner-guy myself (and helpless Halo slave), so naturally I'm drawn to the 360. (Warning, shill follows: http://www.bungie.net announces public beta for Halo 3, Q2 2007)

Based on what little I know about the RPG console market, I'd guess that the Wii is probably your best bet; it's certainly the least risky in terms of price and ROI for the end user. If nothing else, it's got Zelda and what I've seen of its gameplay is amazing. (Swordfights with the Wiimote are remarkably intuitive, and how about a slingshot you actually aim at the screen?)

-- Steve's tempted to pick up a Wii next year if the gadget budget isn't busted by XBox 360 and Office 2007.

From:

anton-p-nym.livejournal.com

Hmm... thought I'd used my "Bungie shill" icon for that one. Oh well.

-- Steve's a bit computer challenged today. Too excited by the beta announcement, perhaps.

From:

wiredgargoyle.livejournal.com

Honestly, it's not yet the time to consider either the Wii or the PS3. The Wii presents some innovative control methods (waving, shaking, pointing the controller) in which to play their games. Those games have largely been less graphics and violence oriented. Zelda is their main RPG line and it's fun but there really hasn't been anything else that I know of.

With the PS3, you are jumping onto a train that has lately shown to be controlled by drunken monkeys, brain eating zombies and 13 year old hackers wanting to pwn your computer. The last few years have seen Sony make some horrible errors with nothing but arrogance to show for it. The PS3 seems to be coming out way too early, a desperate attempt to have a product to compete with Microsoft's. They have an answer for every feature their competitor (the 360) offers but all of them are untested still. Yet, they're the console where all the RPGs have ended up in the past. Almost all of those are Japanese created games so if you're into those, the PS3 is the future if it holds up.

First off, I have a 360. I'm not a big Japanese RPG fan, I prefer action RPGs like System Shock, Deus Ex, Diablo, etc. The 360 has both out now and has some more coming out soon. Check out Bioshock, Alan Wake, and Enchanted Arms for examples of the current and future releases. It has the Xbox Live marketplace which allows you to download classic games, demos, and trailers. On Nov 22nd, you will also have the ability to download current and past television episodes, feature movies and cable shows. Most of this (not demos or trailers) cost 'points' which translates into a classic game like Joust setting you back a couple dollars. They also offer internet games like what Popcap has on their website. This is where you get the wife hooked. If you have Windows Media Edition on your PC, you can stream any type of video to your 360. Otherwise, you're limited to .wmv files which any other type can easily be converted to if you're slightly savvy or ask around. You can also stream the photos and music from your PC to your 360 or the home audio system connected to it.

Sony has made alot of mistakes in the last year trying to make themselves look better than Microsoft and the result's so far haven't worked. They claim a vibrant online feature but it's untested where Microsoft's is nearly five years old. They claim backwards compatibility but like you said, they seem to screwed it up. Microsoft's back library only goes to the Xbox and it's not complete nor perfect. Nintendo has a cool control system but my wrists got tired waving it around all the time and the novelty wore off. Their games are easier to digest and safer for kids. They're a solid company that focuses on fun before graphics and speed, which makes it a good bet.

One more thing, the PS3 has a BluRay DVD player built in and the 360 has a regular DVD with an optional HD DVD player that can be purchased seperately. Those are two different formats that haven't really proved themselves yet. At the moment there are more HD DVDs out in stores but that can change any time. You'll be jumping onto the BluRay bandwagon with the purchase of a PS3 and have the choice of HD DVD or not with the 360. The Wii does not feature a DVD player at all I don't think.

I wish I could tell you more about the PS3 and Wii but a system is only statistics until it's been out for a while. I'd recommend waiting at least 3 to 6 months, see how they hold up to the consumers tastes.

I own a 360 as I mentioned earlier. The wife and I, (moreso the wife) play alot of classic games I downloaded like Bejeweled, Uno, Doom, Defender, Zuma, etc. I use the 360 as a media hub alot, streaming video I downloaded on my PC to my living room to watch on the bigger TV. The ability to stream my entire MP3 collection to the living room is nice as well, or photo slide shows with music. I don't regret my purchase and I don't have anything against the playstation line (I own a PS1 & 2) but don't feel comfortable with how Sony has been doing things lately and a bit suspicious of how secretive they have been about the PS3's features. The Wii is very cool, but it feels gimmicky right now with that controller scheme. Time will tell whether it works, wierder things have caught on.

From:

midnightlurker.livejournal.com

From a similar discussion on the Drunkard's Walk message board:

Microsoft Xbox360 - Made by an evil corporation, backed by rabid fanboys willing to beat you to death with a controller if you disagree with them. May catch on fire.

Sony Playstation 3 - Made by an evil corporation, backed by rabid fanboys willing to beat you to death with a controller if you disagree with them. May double electrical bill.

Nintendo Wii - Made by an evil corporation, backed by rabid fanboys willing to beat you to death with a controller if you disagree with them. May cause you to look stupid waving a controller around.

From:

seawasp

... the Nintendo Wii is far and away the best choice. The first option may kill you, the second will help make you broke, but the Wii can be used in a room that has drawn curtains.

From:

argonel.livejournal.com

I would wait at least 6 months to see what actually is available for the different systems. At this point there really isn't a clear winner. I would say the wii is probably the best choice if you don't have a HD TV. If you do have a HDTV then it is anyones guess which one will be best. There will probably be a lot of crossover between the systems, but I suspect that teh PS3 will have more eastern RPGs while teh 360 will have more western RPGs.

Personally I will probably buy a PS3, but only after my PS2 dies.

From:

ross-teneyck.livejournal.com

Can you point me towards a source on the PS3 backwards compatibility problems? That's probably a make-or-break feature for me.

My PS2 was stolen back at the beginning of the summer, and at that time I figured that the PS3 was coming out before Christmas and was supposed to be backwards compatible; so it seemed to make sense to just wait for that rather than replace the PS2. Now that I know that the PS3 is exploring brave new frontiers of console pricing, and especially if you're telling me that it may not play my old PS2 games, it starts to seem less attractive.

As for other consoles... in the interests of full disclosure, I should point out that I work for a large, Redmond-based software company. That being said, I think the Xbox 360 has a lot to recommend it. Assuming you buy the version with the hard drive (honestly, I don't know why we made that optional... but I digress) it is backwards compatible with most of the original Xbox games; and even if you're not interested in online gaming, you get a free "silver" Xbox Live membership just for owning the console. The silver account doesn't let you play online, but it does let you download OS updates, game demos, and other interesting stuff.

The downside to the Xbox/Xbox 360 line from your perspective -- and mine -- is that it tends to run more towards action or action-RPG games. There are definitely exceptions -- KOTOR was the standout RPG on the original Xbox in my opinion, and one of my all-time favorites -- and it's looking like things may be looking up a little on the 360 RPG front. But from what I've seen, the RPGs that I tend to be most interested in -- the FFs, the Grandias -- are pretty much PSn titles.

So if the PS3 is nae Scottish (i.e., "crap") then... nerts. Maybe it's worth just replacing the PS2 after all.

From:

argonel.livejournal.com

I completely fail to understand why they made teh HDD optional, and then mandated that every game must play without the HDD. Actually I understand it, becaseu the HDD is an expensive moving part with the attendant potential for failure. However the HDD and what that allows is the single most appealing feature of the original X-box. I still curse sony for being so late and doing so little with the HDD for the PS2.

From:

seawasp

If you can navigate Japanese sites: http://www.jp.playstation.com/ps3/status/

A quote on this from one of my sources:

Besides Gran Turismo IV and FF XI, big titles with problems include Suikoden III, Silent Hill II, Megaman X7, Tekken 5, Star Ocean Till the End of Time, Devil May Cry, Xenosaga Episode II, and more.

From:

midnightlurker.livejournal.com

...Yeah, that's looking more and more like a wait-a-year purchase for me.

(And if it's that bad with PS2 games, what about PSX? No Xenogears, no deal.)

From:

ross-teneyck.livejournal.com

A little searching turns up this article: http://au.ps3.ign.com/articles/745/745439p1.html.

That actually sounds only middling-bad, frankly; especially if they can fix some of those issues with software updates.

The game that's really itching at me right now is FFXII, which I couldn't begin until school lets out for Christmas anyway. And realistically (lacking

seawasp's console-availability mojo) I couldn't expect to get a PS3 by that time, especially since I have more entertaining ways to spend my time than standing in lines outside stores.

From:

ninjarat.livejournal.com

At this point: wait. First of all you aren't going to get a PS3 in the forseeable future because -- just like PS2's launch -- Sony can't produce enough units to meet demand. Game Stop is already being shorted units they were promised and other retailers are probably going to be in the same boat. Second, PS2 game releases will slow down but won't stop any time soon. It's too lucrative a market for for third party developers to jump on the next gen bandwagon.

Tangental point: few third party CRPGs get brought to the US anyway.
Tangental point: there is exactly one CRPG for Xbox360 and it stinks. It's really really, really bad. Perhaps not "Beyond the Beyond" level of bad but it's still bad.
Tangental point: Wii will play all GameCube games (to the best of my knowledge at this time Wii is 100% backwards compatible with GC).

Third, my rule of thumb is that a console must offer three "I must play that" games before I'l consider buying it. Given the PS3's price tag? For PS3 I make it six because for the price of the PS3 alone I could buy an Xbox360 and three games *AND* a Wii and three games.

From:

seawasp

... hasn't ever stopped me. Maybe it's just the Game Gods blessing, but I've managed to get the high-demand consoles the very moment I had the money, even if everyone around me was saying "You can't, they're unavailable!"

The PS3 will still win if it WORKS and if I get a Must Play That game for it (there are very few of those, and only one that I suspect is likely to ever be made).

From:

ninjarat.livejournal.com

Okay.

A lot of the current brouhaha about PS and PS2 backwards compatibility is not so much about games that don't work but a huge list of games that don't fully work to varying degrees. Sony is committed to 100% backwards compatibility through future patches and specific downloads for supporting specific games. Certainly a far cry from the original claims of 100% PS/PS2 backwards compatibility. If you're looking for a technical reason to wait to get a PS3 then I think this is it.

Used/refurbished PS2s can be had for about $100 so for the short term (6-12 mo) it might be better to get another PS2, either for yourself or your son, and wait until Sony delivers on its promises.

From:

melchar.livejournal.com

IMO either get the 2nd PS2, since there are lots of rpgs being made for it.

Plus, do what I did. ^_^ I've got a gamer chum who got the xbox 360 and so wasn't using his original xbox. He has given it to me as a long term loan, along with a couple of games for it ['Knights of the Old Republic' & 'Elder Scrolls = Morrowind']. I have both games for my PC already, but hadn't gotten into 'Morrowind' much before.

Both games play well on xbox - and the picture quality is superb [when compared to my 15" laptop screen] - which means I have been completely sucked into 'Morrowind' for the last 2 weeks and ignoring my PS2 [and the 2 games I just got for it = 'Start Wars Legos 2' & 'Star Ocean - till the end of time']

If you can manage a borrow, that's best. The original xboxes are going for about $100-110 on Ebay right now, too.

Unfortunately the 360 doesn't do backwards compatability well and its brick-like power supply needs to be well ventilated. Otherwise I might suggest getting it - and 'Elder Scrolls = Oblivion' since I hear that is even better than 'Morrowind'.

From:

seawasp

.... is my favorite post-Chrono Trigger console RPG. The opening ALONE is so gorgeous that it's almost worth the purchase price.

From:

melchar.livejournal.com

Your recommendation is specifically why I went out to get the game. ^_^ I plan to play it ... after the Morrowind fever has passed.

From:

k-kinnison.livejournal.com

Don't you know that game consoles are soley made for the huge profit margin? Why make something backwards compatible when you can get people to buy re-packs and "best of-" bundles. And then when the system gets out of date you start all over again

Too many people rely on eye-candy and not gameplay. there is really no incentive anymore to create good gameplay and work withen the limts of a system.

From:

seawasp

Most game consoles are sold at a LOSS. Yes, even the PS3.

The companies hope to make money on the GAMES.

I'd say RE eye candy and gameplay that what they don't do is push the limits of the system on plot capabilities. This is because it's *HARD* to get a good multithreaded, robust story. Any good GM can tell you how much work goes into that. It's much easier to come up with some "cute gameplay" idea that will draw in someone for the flashy gameplay that they hadn't seen before, or some WHOA FMV!! that looks so good that the image stays with you while playing. It's much, much, MUCH harder to write a multithreaded, involving, appealing plot. I'd love to write some, but I haven't seen any indication that any companies are really interested in trying to make a Really Big Story game.