Why is Entertainment filled with Teh Stoopid?

[seawasp]

This discussion periodically pops up in our house, usually in the context of anime. Mainly because we have been anime fans for a long time, and yet it seemes to be getting more and more unusual to find a show that is WATCHABLE.

For reference, my Top Anime of All Time are:

Vision of Escaflowne: One of the most well-written TV series I've ever seen, live-action or animated.

Giant Robo: A gorgeous steam/cyberpunk world born from the 1940s Glorious Future images combined with Japans's Giant Robot subgenre.

Oh My Goddess: The Collector's Edition: Sweetest romance I've ever seen.


Teh Stoopid is the inappropriate use of low humor, stupidity in characters, clumsy sight gags, etc., which is found in a show which could otherwise be quite entertaining. We encountered yet another odious example of this last night. Kathleen was poking through some of the current anime and happened across an episode (I think #66) of Naruto Shippuden. This episode was serious, grim, relatively complex for a fighting anime. This was rather different from the clownishly-stupid interruptions we'd seen in the first Naruto, so we wondered if that meant that "Shippuden" was a more serious show. Alas, going back and checking the first couple of episodes, it was suddenly STOOOPID again.

This is truly annoying. So many shows seem to take a serious or interesting premise, and then in the middle of exploring that premise will insist on a girl losing her top, a character being incredibly stupid, etc., in the middle of one of the most interesting sequences. Worse, they may never let you GET to the interesting part because they're too busy doing boob, toilet, and "superdeformed" sight gags.

These things aren't NEW, of course -- I'm well known as a Dragonball fanboy, and Dragonball did quite a bit of that in its early years. But it also had a sense of BALANCE. The jokes and stupid weren't the point of the show, and there would be long serious stretches even in the early show, only interrupted occasionally by a joke. The characters themselves were taken reasonably seriously within their own world, and competence was ASSUMED as part of the character's features.

The problem is it's gotten more and more pervasive. We've done it ourselves, many years ago (can you say "Scrappy Doo"? I knew you could!). But it's now getting harder and harder to find an anime like, say, Escaflowne, or even Hellsing, which isn't throwing stupid CRAP at you in the middle of the serious plot, using gratuitous fanservice just for the sake of another boob shot, or making a stereotypical argument/slapfest happen between a Stupid Male and the Bitchy Female Lead (see, for instance, the first season of Ruroni Kenshin).

I sure hope this cycle turns down soon. It's really annoying that even interesting-sounding shows turn out to be unwatchable. Note, as a normal heterosexual male I don't mind the sight of shapely female bodies, clothed or unclothed, even if there appear to be Cavorite implants to permit the bosom to float in impossible manners. But it's OVERDONE in so many areas and ways, that it bothers ME -- let alone Kathleen, who has no interest in female fanservice and finds it offensive in many ways.

Comments

[jordan179.livejournal.com]

This is what happens when the concept of "comedy relief" goes wrong.

[meril.livejournal.com]

I don't watch Naruto, but I am trying to read it, and I'm kind of excusing the stupid there as something that appeals far more to its target audience of little Japanese boys than it does to me. (I would have thought it was the greatest thing evar when I was 10 or 11, you know?)

[arcadiagt5.livejournal.com]

Mai HIME (and to a lesser exten Mai Otome) suffered from this as well but still got to the story.

Planetes suffers from this problem in some of the early episodes, but never to the extent of derailing the story.

Haibane Renmei and ARIA seem to be immune to the syndrome entirely.

[nojay.livejournal.com]

If you're looking for recommendations for not-stupid anime, here's my favourites...

Haibane Renmei: Deep and thought-provoking, glacially slow to develop and then it twists into a heart-stoppingly dramatic climax. I still don't understand it, I don't think anyone else does too.

Hikaru no Go: Combat! Drama! Rivalry! A fight to the death! A board game! Heh. All of those plus an annoying whiny ghost make it one of the best "sports" animes out there. The reason is good characters, ones you don't need to keep track of hair colour to separate them in your memory. The bad guys aren't evil and the nice guys aren't good, which makes a change from most cookie-cutter sports/combat anime. One unique feature is that the primary characters grow up as the show progresses and years pass, changing physically through puberty. Don't see this level of reality in anime very often.

Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou: Difficult to get hold of as it's never been released in English-language format, but there are 4 fan-subtitled OAVs out there if you hunt for them. Odd apocalyptic "End of the World" story as seen through the eyes of a humanoid robot-person, Alpha who runs a coffee-shop far from what's left of civilisation. Quiet, slow and pleasant with odd flashes of humour and sadness and some Miyazaki-class backdrops. The award-winning manga is also worth hunting down as it is more complete.

Aria: pure chocolate anime, sweet and delicious. Far in the future gondoliers-in-training in a recreation of Venice on a terraformed Mars live day to day, making friends and doing their best. When the animators pull out the stops it's some of the prettiest anime of recent years.

[arcadiagt5.livejournal.com]

When the animators pull out the stops it's some of the prettiest anime of recent years.

Oh my yes! Sometimes I think that the "fanservice" shots in ARIA are the reflections of stuff (buildings usually) in the water...

[seawasp]

Well, the "bad guys aren't evil and nice guys aren't good" is generally an ANTI-recommendation for me, since I don't care for antiheroes or vagueness in morality. Plenty of that in the real world.

I'm looking for stuff like Escaflowne, Nadia (minus the Island Sequence), Giant Robo, even Yoroiden Samurai Troopers, etc. -- adventures without Dorky Superdeforming, Overdone Fanservice, etc.

[nojay.livejournal.com]

How about "Starship Troopers" the anime series then? Real powered armor (maybe the first in anime history), six half-hour laserdisc OAVs with fansubs?

[dragoness-e.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen the Hikaru no Go anime, but I have been reading the HNG manga...

What he/she/it means is that the characters are like real people in a normal world (except for the whiny ghost--and I like Sai!). There are rivalries, some people are obnoxious jerks, but... the manga is about amateur and professional Go players, not Yakuza thugs or demon-haunted medieval Japan. No one is a really evil person, nor do we have any paladins, either. It's a coming-of-age story, not an epic battle of Good vs. Evil.

alas...

[seawasp]

Most coming-of-age stories put me to sleep, well-done or not, unless they involve sword duels, large-caliber weapons, or Powers Beyond the Lot of Mortal Men.

If it's just about stuff just like the real world, well, I can actually find it in the real world. No need for fiction about it. I don't watch the boxing, basketball, etc., anime either.

[ninjarat.livejournal.com]

Divergence Eve and the followup Misaki Chronicles. Yes, the character designs scream "pointless fanservice" and yes, the first few episodes do have their share of it, but when the story gets rolling? You know how Takahashi's art give the Mermaid stories that much more impact because it isn't what you'd expect from horror? Same thing with Divergence Eve.

I rather enjoyed Madlax. The writing isn't as good as Noir, but something about Madlax caught my attention in a way that Noir couldn't.

Le Chevalier d'Eon. An historical fantasy loosely based on the life of D'Eon de Beaumont. It has moments of comic relief but not stupidity.

[seawasp]

Well, the Takahashi reference doesn't do anything for me -- I never saw the Mermaid stuff as a couple doses of Takahashi were enough for me. But the description's interesting. Though getting anything where the character designs scream Pointless Fanservice past Kathy might be a challenge.

[ninjarat.livejournal.com]

Well, if you're at all cognizant of Rumiko Takahashi's kiddie comedy then you know her art style. The Mermaid stories are straight-up horror. Monsters, chopping up people, the whole nine yards.

As for Divergence Eve, think "Alien" or "Saturn 3". 1970's style SF-horror.

[full-metal-ox.livejournal.com]

This may be hoary grey-whiskered old news to you (and my apologies if it is) but, for sheer joyous, straightforward, full-speed-ahead, camp-but-unironic hot-blooded heroism, I'd recommend King of Braves: GaoGaiGar, a 90's state-of-the-art homage to giant robot anime of the Ishinomori school. The creators thoroughly grasp that all-important distinction--one that you pinpointed in your review of the Speed Racer movie--between teasing and mocking your target demographic.

Here, to give you some idea of the general flavor, is the first season's opening sequence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w9UX_ZxAmA

[full-metal-ox.livejournal.com]

Oh, and another you might enjoy is Heroic Age, which could be summarized as Tarzan cast in the Hercules myth and plunged into a Matsumotoesque fancy-dress space opera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNFESaGbV3c

[ninjarat.livejournal.com]

YKK and Aria share a basic premise: nothing happens, but it is the most beautiful nothing that you've ever seen.

The entirety of the YKK manga has been fan-translated. Most of it is available on-line.

[condorfan.livejournal.com]

Have you seen any of MUSHI-SHI? Phil is trying to think of a way to describe it that does it justice... ~:)

Carolyn says: sort of a OMG! OAV feel to it, without the "sweetness and light" but with a scientifically-minded trying-to-figure-out-how-things-work main character. I've recommended it to Kathleen but I'm not sure if she's seen any... if you guys have discs from Rob, see if there's any subbed Mushi-Shi on those.

Oh, heck, just watch some! :) It may not necessarily be your cup of tea :) but we enjoyed it.

[chuk-g.livejournal.com]

I always kind of thought those kinds of things were part of the point of anime -- I've tried to watch some of it in spite of the stoopid, but the good points never really seemed to outweigh the bad. But now you say it's getting even worse?

No, it's CERTAINLY not the point of anime.

[seawasp]

Anime's "point" was that it wasn't a genre. it was a MEDIUM, and ANYTHING you could find in live-action, you'd find in anime form somewhere.

The three examples I gave (Escaflowne, Giant Robo, Ah! Megamisama!) have essentially NONE of that in there. I think Merle (catgirl secondary character) gets about three minutes worth of Silly Catgirl Pranks in the entire series; Hitomi, the main character, ISN'T babalicious (she's not bad looking, reasonably cute, but not stunning) and even when there are JUSTIFIABLE opportunities for fanservice panty shots, you don't get them.

Giant Robo has a minimum of Teh Silly, and it really IS only comic relief in between a lot of pretty grim-if-pretty events.

The only fanservice you really get in Ah! Megamisama! is from Urd's first appearance, and she quickly shuts down any actual possibility of it being exploitative. The only silliness in the show comes from reasonably plausible character interaction and events (given the premise of the show).

Nadia: Secret of Blue Water had a couple unforgivably Stoopit sequences ( the Island Sequence is infamous) but was mostly a pretty serious, straightforward show.

Hell, Metal Fighter Miku -- on the face of it, one of the most ludicrous premises of any anime EVAR -- was pretty much a serious show within its silly context.

No, in the past, there was a LOT of perfectly straightforward storytelling in anime. Sure, there were ALSO shows with a lot of stupid humor in them (Ranma, Slayers, etc.), but it wasn't a nigh-universal thing like it seems to be these days.

I blame Tenchi for starting the modern trend.

[roseembolism.livejournal.com]

I personally liked Fruits Basket, because though at first it seems like a lightweight fluffy story about boys changing into animals, you quickly get into finding out how badly the curse has damaged the people subjected to it. A psychologist friend of mine has noted how the personalities of the people in the series mirror the different kinds of responses children have to abuse, and the series is definitely about overcoming one's past.

Another series I've been enjoying is Gankutsuo, which is a retelling of the Count of Monte Christo from the P.O.V. of Albert, the son of one of the Count's targets. It's mostly serious, and quite visually stunning.

Princess Tutu also starts out looking annoyingly cute, but after a while one realizes that we're actually dealing with ballet here- and the stories in ballet are horrific. Cutesy though she may be, our heroine is trying to swim upstream making tragedies have different endings...and then she finds out that she's part of a ballet story as well. One really needs to understand opera and ballet to get the full impact of this show, but if one does, hearing the thematic piece for ann episode can add to the impact of the scene.

[seawasp]

Kathy liked Fruits Basket to some extent, but my attitude was that I'd much rather have Alucard come in and deal with the family problems than keep watching Miss Nicey Milquetoast. (the bit about the abused personalities was one someone else once mentioned to us about Saint Seiya...)

Gankutsuo is one I DO want to watch. I understand it's not just a retelling but also the Count of Monte-Cristo... IN SPAAAAACE?

I don't really understand opera or ballet. I have PERFORMED light opera, but I don't know much outside of that.

[condorfan.livejournal.com]

Rob Fenelon admires how dark Princess Tutu can get... ask him. :) The second half of the series, especially, is quite - well, not GRIM, per se, but much darker than the first few eps of the first half of the series would have you believe. Much less 'magical-girl' than you'd think at first glance.

p.s. Tanya has named her brown gator and croc, Waniko and Crocodelia - after the ones in, respectively, the English and Japanese versions of P. Tutu. :)

[roseembolism.livejournal.com]

Well, that's opera and ballet for ya- it looks all fluffy and sweet, and then you realize what those stories are about.

[roseembolism.livejournal.com]

OK, so scratch Fruits Basket off.

As for gankutsuo, yes indeed it is the count of Monte Cristo in the future. That way they have the excuse to have the utterly hallucinogenic hair and clothing.

Princess Tutu would likely be worth watching even without a major knowledge of opera, if only because of the two major twists in the plot that do things fairly few anime series do. If you can stand the old-school animation style, it's still recommended.

[midnightlurker.livejournal.com]

Tengen Toppa Gurren-Lagann. Good old-fashioned hotblooded super robot wowzerness. Pierce the heavens with your drill, but skip the hot springs episode -- they concentrated all the stupid into it, to quarantine it from the rest of the series.

Macross Frontier. SHEER AWESOME. NO STUPID WHATSOEVER. I cannot recommend this highly enough.

[lexomatic.livejournal.com]

Seconded on Gurren Lagann (pronounced "log-on," possibly because that's what the mini-mecha does; it would be consistent with characters called "Viral," "Cytomander," and "Lord Genome"), which just finished its 27-ep run on Sci Fi Channel's Ani-Monday block last night. It is significantly less stooopid-annoying than Mobile Fighter G Gundam, which had a superficially similar premise of mecha that can channel FIGHTING SPIRIT!, but that was supposed to be a parody of the genre (according to the director's interview on the last disk).

There is (one notes) Yoko's preferred outfit, which seems ... ahh, inadequate in terms of weight-distribution-control for a practiced sniper; but it's consistent, and causes facial wildtakes in male teammates only a couple of times.

Also, Wasp might like the show's Smithian escalation of capability. Large mecha, to bigger mecha, to city-sized mecha, to slightly smaller but space-capable mecha, and on to Freaking Ridiculous Bigger Than Gunbuster 2 and Tosses Planets Like Bocce Balls mecha, although that was in a universe of Super Spiral energy and pure thought, so scale doesn't count. (The official GAINAX site provides a gallery of mecha pics.)

[midnightlurker.livejournal.com]

Planets? You speak of tossing mere planets? Pshaw. As the principal writer of TV Tropes' "Lensman Arms Race" page, I hereby declare Gurren-Lagann to be More Lensman Than Lensman. :)